So, my question after reading your post: do you support the expression of tolerance, or the policies which you consider to be intolerant? Three paragraphs or less.
Whew, I'll give it a shot, though the question is a bit ambiguous, IMHO. Basically, I support people expressing whatever views they like so long as they don't commit or advocate violence. Within private organizations I generally support them setting whatever policies they want. In public communities, I support equal protection under the law, which means you have to recognze the same rights and privileges to everyone unless there's a compelling mitigating factor (e.g. if you've been convicted of armed robbery three times you've forfeited the Second Amendment rights with which you demonstrably can't be trusted. ) Thanks to the First Amendment, religion doesn't qualify as a compelling mitigating factor, but for the rules of the religion itself it obviously does.
And that is exactly what I alluded to regarding cultural relativism. I can understand it in terms of their culture, but I would never support it.
Culture doesn't give people an out for me. I understand quite well that opposition to gay sex (but not homosexuals themselves, a subtle but important distinction) is generally agreed to be part of Christian culture and happen to think it correct for various reasons not really relevant here. It should not be a part of American culture, because not every American is a Christian, there is growing debate within the Church about the historical opposition to gay sex and even if neither of those things were true the country is run by the Constitution, not the Church, for good reason. Others are free to publicly and vocally disagree with me, and I will respond by telling them why I think they're wrong. If they start assaulting homosexuals I'll call the cops.
So I support opposition to gay sex within the Church and oppose that opposition in America as a whole, because I believe that's the ethically correct thing to do in each case. Note that widespread opposition to gay sex is predominant in both cultures, but only acceptable to me in one. It's not because the cultures are different, but because Christianity entails a number of commitments that being an American does not, and gay sex is not, IMHO, reconcilable with those commitments. That's not a cultural distinction, it's a defining one. If I decide I don't like rock music I'm discarding part of American culture; if I change my citizenship to Norwegian I'm no longer an American.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 16/10/2010 at 07:17:01 AM
Love the Sinner
- 13/10/2010 04:07:28 PM
1333 Views
I have to think about that for a while.
- 13/10/2010 04:30:56 PM
884 Views
Suicide is significantly higher in young gay populations
- 13/10/2010 05:36:01 PM
811 Views
That is not what I think requires thought
- 13/10/2010 05:56:06 PM
818 Views
Nossy I ain't a mind reader, no matter how I try
or how much I would do Jean Grey
- 13/10/2010 06:06:42 PM
951 Views
or how much I would do Jean Grey
- 13/10/2010 06:06:42 PM
951 Views
ok now show that it caused by what Christian beliefs *NM*
- 13/10/2010 06:50:32 PM
405 Views
I don't think it's the belief's themselves
- 14/10/2010 12:20:01 AM
848 Views
The churches who encourage people to bully gays should be condemned
- 14/10/2010 06:43:06 PM
833 Views
Ah, that Ghandi quote sure does get around. (which is funny, since he wasn't a Christian)
- 13/10/2010 05:07:42 PM
927 Views
- 13/10/2010 05:07:42 PM
927 Views
I'm not sure that is true
- 13/10/2010 05:16:30 PM
794 Views
When's the last time you heard the quote attributed to anyone else?
- 13/10/2010 08:34:10 PM
782 Views
- 13/10/2010 08:34:10 PM
782 Views
That many people don't know the correct origin doesn't change it though
- 13/10/2010 09:31:13 PM
924 Views
I think you are missing his point
- 13/10/2010 05:45:45 PM
881 Views
Question (and this one actually is asking for information
)...
- 13/10/2010 06:42:17 PM
716 Views
)...
- 13/10/2010 06:42:17 PM
716 Views
I have seen gays be bullied before
- 13/10/2010 07:02:35 PM
923 Views
You just didn't listen to a thing I said *NM*
- 13/10/2010 07:09:29 PM
362 Views
why do you believe that? Because I don't agree with what you said?
- 13/10/2010 07:30:27 PM
832 Views
I said you aren't listening to a thing I said, for you didn't respond to anything that I wrote
- 13/10/2010 07:52:50 PM
817 Views
you are not interested in talking to anyone who doesn't agree with you
- 13/10/2010 09:01:03 PM
814 Views
I think there's truth in this as well.
- 13/10/2010 07:55:00 PM
850 Views
churches tend to refelect society as much if not more then they influence it
- 14/10/2010 07:15:35 PM
817 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point
- 13/10/2010 08:30:42 PM
887 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point
- 13/10/2010 09:55:52 PM
892 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point
- 14/10/2010 03:49:14 PM
910 Views
Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level
- 14/10/2010 05:49:22 PM
921 Views
Re: Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level
- 14/10/2010 08:52:24 PM
940 Views
Do you know greek or hebrew?
- 14/10/2010 08:57:32 PM
779 Views
I know a few words here and there, but not really. Do you?
- 14/10/2010 10:46:36 PM
913 Views
There's a good case on both sides (try Strong's Concordance, if you haven't, btw. )
- 15/10/2010 05:09:21 AM
1353 Views
You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point
- 13/10/2010 05:51:53 PM
954 Views
so should Christians abandon other religious conviction to stop bullying?
- 13/10/2010 07:39:54 PM
822 Views
Many good points there; I think I'll let you play Defender of the Faith for a bit.
- 14/10/2010 08:50:23 AM
927 Views
- 14/10/2010 08:50:23 AM
927 Views
I think he is jackass that does not believe other's can have apoint of view
- 13/10/2010 06:48:12 PM
821 Views
That's right, bullying would go away if we didn't have Christians to make moral judgements on things
- 13/10/2010 08:11:27 PM
912 Views
I mostly agree
- 13/10/2010 08:19:00 PM
980 Views
most of the bullies I remember from school were not known for their regular church attendance
- 14/10/2010 07:24:06 PM
812 Views
Let me see if I can understand where we agree, it is hard to do with all the Sarcasm
- 13/10/2010 08:48:38 PM
872 Views
- 13/10/2010 08:48:38 PM
872 Views
Meh. He's not entirely incorrect. But not all Christians are anti-gay.
- 13/10/2010 08:43:04 PM
876 Views
It is better to be a Tolkein than a Token
- 13/10/2010 08:52:09 PM
844 Views
- 13/10/2010 08:52:09 PM
844 Views
If I were a Tolkien liberal Christian, wouldn't that make me an American Roman Catholic?
*NM*
- 13/10/2010 09:18:57 PM
331 Views
*NM*
- 13/10/2010 09:18:57 PM
331 Views
Interesting
- 13/10/2010 08:56:46 PM
1154 Views
His first three sentences were totally unecessary. The rest is conspiracy-laden nonsense.
- 14/10/2010 12:37:06 AM
928 Views
Re:
- 14/10/2010 03:06:36 AM
888 Views
I think Chora has dibs on that bumper sticker.
- 14/10/2010 09:35:02 AM
961 Views
Re:
- 14/10/2010 11:50:04 PM
953 Views
It's nothing at all like cultural relativism.
- 15/10/2010 01:16:10 AM
834 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism.
- 16/10/2010 05:20:56 AM
922 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism.
- 16/10/2010 07:16:21 AM
830 Views
I don't think there is any question...
- 14/10/2010 04:42:45 AM
850 Views
A lot of Christian doctrine states that people cannot know who is worthy of God and it's not up to
- 14/10/2010 05:41:19 AM
851 Views
I think he's reading a lot of things into that letter that aren't there.
- 14/10/2010 08:22:13 AM
816 Views
