Active Users:186 Time:19/05/2024 08:16:11 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
Now you've got it. Joel Send a noteboard - 12/01/2011 06:40:50 PM
as for the men a re sprinters and women are long distance runners men dominate women by very large margins in both fields. The best female runner at marathons come muck closer then they do to the best male sprinters (would pure strength dominates) but men still win all of the major marathons. Men are simply more athletic then women are. I know there plenty of experts who spend considerable time effort blowing smoke up each others asses trying to prove that isn't true but that doesn't really change things. It possible that if the push long distance running far enough it boil down to will power and fat reserves and females might gain parity but that is simply finding an exception to the rule.

Not PC I know but reality isn't PC.

PC is neither here nor there to physiology, but this business of "everyone who's devoted thier professional career and decades of analytical research to the subject but still disagrees with my off the cuff uninformed opinion is a PC idiot" is getting kinda old. All else being equal, I'll bet on the person who has to go through labor when it comes to lower body strength, just as I'll expect the person who has to nurse to have larger breasts, and I'm pretty sure there's nothing PC about that. ;)

I still can't see any reason men should be better at math, on average; I'm open to supporting arguments (and, no, standardized tests by the same people who've been telling the women since birth that they suck at math don't count) but you'll have to present them.


Do you mean from an evolutionary standpoint? Or do you mean you don't understand how any of the known biological/chemical differences in the brains of men and women (assuming nature can be totally separated from nurture) can explain why men would on average be better at math than women?

It makes intuitive sense to me that the presence/degree of different hormone balances impacts how pathways form and what types of thinking those pathways enable or strengthen, and I do believe that the statement "men will on average be better at math than women" would be true even if you could somehow conduct a scientific experiment in which you raised boys and girls from birth in entirely the same environment to remove any nurture component. I also think that our cultural forces exacerbate those differences, though, so I don't think I'm entirely disagreeing with you. Other than the fact that I am willing to buy it and you aren't ;)

I'm not unwilling to buy it, I'm just not willing to take it on faith from someone contending from the start that sexual inequality exists in areas that seemingly have nothing to do with sex.


But I don't get how you can accept that pubertal changes (for example) can affect physical differences in the body that lead to inequality in the strength of certain parts of the body, but not the brain? Or are you just saying that you could accept that but it simply hasn't been proven to your satisfaction yet?

The last part; I don't deny the possibility, at all, but I want proof, or at least strong evidence, I'm not going to just take it on faith or based on someones preconceived notions on the subject.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
Looks like the feminist movement wasn't as successful as it appears random thoughts - 11/01/2011 06:21:01 PM 1992 Views
I think you're extrapolating a bit too much beetnemesis - 11/01/2011 06:45:38 PM 1084 Views
The aricle does mention that women feel pressured to work when they did not want to random thoughts - 11/01/2011 06:48:47 PM 1066 Views
I don't trust the figures. Rebekah - 11/01/2011 06:50:24 PM 1093 Views
One assumes the latter, to the extent that "same job with same experience" can be defined. *NM* Legolas - 12/01/2011 07:10:13 PM 558 Views
One might assume that, but it's not necessarily so. Rebekah - 12/01/2011 08:58:14 PM 1039 Views
While I don't 100% agree with the article, some feminists annoy me no end. Rebekah - 11/01/2011 06:47:03 PM 1101 Views
My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career random thoughts - 11/01/2011 06:52:11 PM 1089 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career Rebekah - 11/01/2011 09:35:43 PM 1079 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career Avendesora - 12/01/2011 01:36:14 AM 1081 Views
Yeah, got one like that, too. Joel - 12/01/2011 02:17:17 AM 1084 Views
yeah prett much anything gross that isn't in a diaper is my job random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:12:11 AM 1012 Views
It's not just that choice though. Sareitha Sedai - 11/01/2011 07:12:48 PM 1132 Views
It feels more hypocritical coming from feminists than "traditionalists". *NM* Rebekah - 11/01/2011 07:17:24 PM 591 Views
For you maybe. Sareitha Sedai - 11/01/2011 07:27:52 PM 1071 Views
there is definitely some SAHM snobbery random thoughts - 11/01/2011 08:43:21 PM 1045 Views
Well. Rebekah - 11/01/2011 09:34:42 PM 1106 Views
I agree. I would also like to add, if I may... Avendesora - 12/01/2011 01:27:59 AM 1082 Views
all 25 of them? random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:14:56 AM 1015 Views
Pffft, look it up a bit. You might find info on the national propaganda radio (NPR) site. Avendesora - 12/01/2011 12:47:33 PM 1043 Views
It's a difficult dynamic even under the best of circumstances, when both partners have chosen it. Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 02:25:20 PM 928 Views
I agree, it's very difficult. Avendesora - 12/01/2011 03:14:59 PM 976 Views
it is nuanced random thoughts - 12/01/2011 03:06:39 PM 992 Views
Re: it is nuanced Avendesora - 12/01/2011 04:58:36 PM 1014 Views
You are spot on. As usual. About everything. *NM* Tashmere - 12/01/2011 01:42:18 AM 628 Views
Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 02:25:59 PM 987 Views
I have to admit that this bothers me. rebelaessedai - 11/01/2011 07:33:09 PM 1086 Views
I don't expect people to understand my choice necessarily. Rebekah - 11/01/2011 09:36:52 PM 1109 Views
In addition... Jacob - 12/01/2011 05:39:25 PM 987 Views
I guess you think the same of me then. Clover - 11/01/2011 09:48:31 PM 970 Views
Another one? rebelaessedai - 12/01/2011 06:01:43 AM 994 Views
Re: Another one? Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:33:58 PM 1036 Views
~never mind~ *NM* *NM* Aeryn - 12/01/2011 04:42:47 PM 688 Views
I'm going to answer you anyway. Rebekah - 12/01/2011 04:54:18 PM 1094 Views
not to mention nossy - 12/01/2011 05:11:42 PM 1034 Views
In addition Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 05:23:25 PM 972 Views
you don't want kids? random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:46:25 PM 978 Views
bleck nossy - 12/01/2011 11:14:25 PM 981 Views
again not the vibe I get from you random thoughts - 12/01/2011 11:38:26 PM 974 Views
Hehe. Clover - 13/01/2011 12:15:06 AM 1019 Views
Not selfish. Tashmere - 13/01/2011 02:45:43 AM 982 Views
You don't have to be a doctor to contribute to the world random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:27:26 PM 1049 Views
Poor Aeryn Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 05:29:47 PM 970 Views
I replied before she edited random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:41:53 PM 932 Views
Am I at least absolved from having to respond? Aeryn - 15/01/2011 06:11:27 AM 1015 Views
Certainly. *NM* Rebekah - 15/01/2011 09:40:09 AM 626 Views
The primary issue... Jacob - 12/01/2011 05:52:42 PM 951 Views
*NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 05:54:29 PM 556 Views
Agreed; ironically, that first line applies to this thread and mine with the parenting article. Joel - 13/01/2011 10:00:28 PM 1099 Views
What Rebekah said... Clover - 15/01/2011 07:55:34 PM 953 Views
Me too! Clover - 11/01/2011 09:43:57 PM 1043 Views
Re: Me too! Darth_Katie - 12/01/2011 01:23:39 AM 1044 Views
It has been a long, long time since I have seen a woman getting looked down on for staying at home. Tashmere - 12/01/2011 01:48:42 AM 929 Views
I have a fiancee like that. Joel - 12/01/2011 02:14:53 AM 991 Views
I feel so fortunate to be a stay at home mom. Beqi - 12/01/2011 11:32:37 PM 946 Views
My commentary on the whys and wherefores of this stuff would be way too politically incorrect SilverWarder - 11/01/2011 07:56:24 PM 1085 Views
I think all of that makes sense random thoughts - 11/01/2011 08:36:39 PM 1014 Views
In this particular case I don't disagree with you. SilverWarder - 11/01/2011 09:28:13 PM 935 Views
I'm not sure why either sex should surpass the other in math. Joel - 12/01/2011 02:34:09 AM 930 Views
men have more physical strength period random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:30:14 AM 938 Views
There's a lot more to running (especially marathons) then leg strength. Joel - 12/01/2011 05:41:11 AM 939 Views
how much time the experts spend being wrong doesn't make them less wrong random thoughts - 12/01/2011 03:16:10 PM 937 Views
How much more time they've spent studying it before drawing conclusions makes a big difference. Joel - 12/01/2011 05:42:26 PM 940 Views
your right it is just a coincidence that their results always matches their politics random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:56:03 PM 994 Views
There's definitely such a thing as a self fulfilling prophecy. Joel - 12/01/2011 07:00:23 PM 948 Views
so you would trust them if they only admitted conseratives? random thoughts - 12/01/2011 09:51:00 PM 972 Views
Admitted? No, but they'll take anyone with the grades. Joel - 13/01/2011 09:47:42 PM 960 Views
Every study I have seen shows most schools have few to no non-leberal proffesors random thoughts - 13/01/2011 10:07:08 PM 903 Views
Every study I've ever seen shows that math and science fields have few to no women. Joel - 13/01/2011 10:42:46 PM 1025 Views
not when we know men are better at math thewpmen are random thoughts - 13/01/2011 11:10:18 PM 1040 Views
Sigh... we know no such thing, and even if we did, it would be those biased liberals telling us. Joel - 13/01/2011 11:30:33 PM 858 Views
When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 03:47:53 PM 994 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math Macharius - 12/01/2011 04:32:38 PM 910 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 04:41:42 PM 984 Views
Both, really; the latter is a consequence of the former. Joel - 12/01/2011 05:21:28 PM 876 Views
I'm trying to understand your position Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 05:28:43 PM 938 Views
try string theory, it makes more sense than Joel logic random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:57:27 PM 899 Views
Now you've got it. Joel - 12/01/2011 06:40:50 PM 1042 Views
Okay, that's fair. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 06:42:30 PM 540 Views
Glad we were able to reach an understanding. Joel - 13/01/2011 10:02:47 PM 934 Views
Re: I'm trying to understand your position Camilla - 13/01/2011 08:12:05 PM 979 Views
we know the brain of women works differently then the brains of men random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:40:15 PM 991 Views
What evidence I'm aware of seems inconclusive. Joel - 12/01/2011 06:46:50 PM 867 Views
There are theories but of course they are unprovable random thoughts - 12/01/2011 10:50:08 PM 955 Views
That's a logical rationale, and might even be accurate, but in this case I want hard evidence. Joel - 13/01/2011 09:03:32 PM 865 Views
I think if you look you find you believe all sorts of things that can't be proven random thoughts - 13/01/2011 10:03:54 PM 926 Views
I have, and have frequently argued everyone holds such beliefs. Joel - 13/01/2011 10:33:01 PM 826 Views
here is some evdience to argue that it is not society but biology random thoughts - 13/01/2011 08:43:43 PM 982 Views
I think you did like I always do and forgot to give us a way to click your link. Joel - 13/01/2011 09:56:52 PM 979 Views
oops random thoughts - 13/01/2011 10:07:55 PM 1021 Views
Seems like that's an argument for both views, in a way. Joel - 13/01/2011 11:14:11 PM 888 Views
You can use anything to prove what you want if you are willing to spin it hard enough random thoughts - 14/01/2011 02:57:29 PM 1132 Views
I used YOUR article to "prove" what it says outright. Joel - 15/01/2011 05:35:27 PM 1078 Views
I would also like to say this: Rebekah - 11/01/2011 09:33:23 PM 964 Views
Of course Tom - 12/01/2011 01:47:14 AM 1006 Views
Re: Of course Rebekah - 12/01/2011 04:57:11 PM 979 Views
"Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. Legolas - 12/01/2011 07:58:12 PM 1013 Views
Re: "Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. Camilla - 12/01/2011 08:15:59 PM 997 Views
It's true for Arabic and hence, one suspects, Hebrew. Legolas - 13/01/2011 07:43:21 PM 920 Views
I'm glad YOU think it's fun... Joel - 13/01/2011 10:05:07 PM 966 Views
I seem to remember reading about genders in Norwegian once, but I forget now... Legolas - 13/01/2011 10:11:24 PM 1002 Views
I think you may be right, but I'll no more after next week. Joel - 14/01/2011 12:20:54 AM 1085 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: Camilla - 12/01/2011 09:15:28 AM 964 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:27:14 PM 996 Views
No Camilla - 12/01/2011 12:28:48 PM 902 Views
Re: No Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:35:56 PM 863 Views
Re: No Camilla - 12/01/2011 12:37:33 PM 973 Views
Re: No Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:43:36 PM 960 Views
Re: No Camilla - 12/01/2011 12:47:56 PM 992 Views
Since this has become too complicated Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:54:54 PM 1004 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated Camilla - 12/01/2011 12:56:20 PM 999 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated Rebekah - 12/01/2011 04:55:50 PM 936 Views
The two are used as different psychological concepts. Darth_Katie - 12/01/2011 02:24:58 PM 957 Views
Again, used incorrectly. Tom - 12/01/2011 03:34:22 PM 931 Views
Re: Again, used incorrectly. Camilla - 12/01/2011 04:00:59 PM 1011 Views
Exactly. *NM* Rebekah - 12/01/2011 04:53:03 PM 560 Views
It really doesn't surprise me Beqi - 12/01/2011 12:36:19 AM 971 Views
Have you left a memo at the Feminist Movement's Office? Dannymac - 12/01/2011 12:46:45 AM 1004 Views
what the point? Like good liberals they only believe science that agrees with them *NM* random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:31:09 AM 478 Views
Actually, the feminist movement was completely successful. Tom - 12/01/2011 01:42:44 AM 1008 Views
Well put. *NM* everynametaken - 12/01/2011 02:10:56 AM 550 Views
I was playing a bit but I agree that the feminist in the past accomplished a lot random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:34:04 AM 1015 Views
NOW is just a left-leaning PAC. Tom - 12/01/2011 03:16:52 PM 968 Views
I would argue the women's movement and the feminist movement are not the same thing random thoughts - 12/01/2011 03:53:19 PM 928 Views
Now if only others were so rational about it. SilverWarder - 17/01/2011 05:55:57 AM 1968 Views
Nevermind, Tom beat me to it. Avendesora - 12/01/2011 01:54:07 AM 937 Views
Mmm. I don't think you understand the feminist movement. You have been reading to many things Tashmere - 12/01/2011 01:56:20 AM 999 Views
I was refering to groups like NOW random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:40:46 AM 940 Views
Gotcha. Tashmere - 12/01/2011 11:53:29 PM 943 Views
I was being a tad bit trollish with my title random thoughts - 13/01/2011 01:47:30 AM 898 Views
I'm not sure that follows, at all. Joel - 12/01/2011 02:06:41 AM 909 Views
they never mention their study methods Ava - 12/01/2011 02:14:15 PM 991 Views
Gosh, look what you started. nossy - 12/01/2011 03:00:23 PM 989 Views
somebody need to start something it is pretty dead around here *NM* random thoughts - 12/01/2011 03:16:54 PM 566 Views
Seriously *NM* beetnemesis - 12/01/2011 09:56:56 PM 540 Views
I agree that it would be awesome to hang with my kid every day and not have to work. TaskmasterJack - 12/01/2011 11:33:25 PM 1000 Views
that part would be great random thoughts - 12/01/2011 11:40:49 PM 954 Views
I could do it every day. TaskmasterJack - 13/01/2011 12:52:56 AM 889 Views
Me too... Jacob - 13/01/2011 02:45:49 PM 1020 Views
So here's the question. Why don't men have a "choice" to opt-out? Aeryn - 15/01/2011 06:13:28 AM 983 Views
They do. Rebekah - 15/01/2011 09:42:29 AM 932 Views
read further up the thread random thoughts - 15/01/2011 10:49:08 AM 999 Views
I really wish that were more socially acceptable. Clover - 15/01/2011 07:58:57 PM 1015 Views
I feel I have that choice. TaskmasterJack - 16/01/2011 12:08:48 AM 947 Views
They most certainly do. Jacob - 18/01/2011 04:39:09 PM 1053 Views
This sounds awful to me. rebelaessedai - 13/01/2011 04:27:08 AM 962 Views
Re: This sounds awful to me. TaskmasterJack - 14/01/2011 02:47:36 AM 985 Views
Yikes. rebelaessedai - 14/01/2011 11:13:39 PM 962 Views
I should have twigged on to that sooner. I would have if I had read more posts before answering. Tashmere - 13/01/2011 02:50:20 AM 975 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes