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Now if only others were so rational about it. SilverWarder Send a noteboard - 17/01/2011 05:55:57 AM
And man is that Dworkin observation spot on.

She wasn't beaten with the ugly stick - someone made her run naked through the ugly forest!
May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk.

Old Egyptian Blessing
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Looks like the feminist movement wasn't as successful as it appears random thoughts - 11/01/2011 06:21:01 PM 1990 Views
I think you're extrapolating a bit too much beetnemesis - 11/01/2011 06:45:38 PM 1083 Views
The aricle does mention that women feel pressured to work when they did not want to random thoughts - 11/01/2011 06:48:47 PM 1065 Views
I don't trust the figures. Rebekah - 11/01/2011 06:50:24 PM 1090 Views
One assumes the latter, to the extent that "same job with same experience" can be defined. *NM* Legolas - 12/01/2011 07:10:13 PM 557 Views
One might assume that, but it's not necessarily so. Rebekah - 12/01/2011 08:58:14 PM 1038 Views
While I don't 100% agree with the article, some feminists annoy me no end. Rebekah - 11/01/2011 06:47:03 PM 1100 Views
My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career random thoughts - 11/01/2011 06:52:11 PM 1086 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career Rebekah - 11/01/2011 09:35:43 PM 1078 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career Avendesora - 12/01/2011 01:36:14 AM 1079 Views
Yeah, got one like that, too. Joel - 12/01/2011 02:17:17 AM 1081 Views
yeah prett much anything gross that isn't in a diaper is my job random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:12:11 AM 1011 Views
It's not just that choice though. Sareitha Sedai - 11/01/2011 07:12:48 PM 1131 Views
It feels more hypocritical coming from feminists than "traditionalists". *NM* Rebekah - 11/01/2011 07:17:24 PM 588 Views
For you maybe. Sareitha Sedai - 11/01/2011 07:27:52 PM 1071 Views
there is definitely some SAHM snobbery random thoughts - 11/01/2011 08:43:21 PM 1044 Views
Well. Rebekah - 11/01/2011 09:34:42 PM 1105 Views
I agree. I would also like to add, if I may... Avendesora - 12/01/2011 01:27:59 AM 1081 Views
all 25 of them? random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:14:56 AM 1015 Views
Pffft, look it up a bit. You might find info on the national propaganda radio (NPR) site. Avendesora - 12/01/2011 12:47:33 PM 1043 Views
It's a difficult dynamic even under the best of circumstances, when both partners have chosen it. Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 02:25:20 PM 927 Views
I agree, it's very difficult. Avendesora - 12/01/2011 03:14:59 PM 975 Views
it is nuanced random thoughts - 12/01/2011 03:06:39 PM 991 Views
Re: it is nuanced Avendesora - 12/01/2011 04:58:36 PM 1013 Views
You are spot on. As usual. About everything. *NM* Tashmere - 12/01/2011 01:42:18 AM 627 Views
Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 02:25:59 PM 987 Views
I have to admit that this bothers me. rebelaessedai - 11/01/2011 07:33:09 PM 1086 Views
I don't expect people to understand my choice necessarily. Rebekah - 11/01/2011 09:36:52 PM 1109 Views
In addition... Jacob - 12/01/2011 05:39:25 PM 987 Views
I guess you think the same of me then. Clover - 11/01/2011 09:48:31 PM 969 Views
Another one? rebelaessedai - 12/01/2011 06:01:43 AM 994 Views
Re: Another one? Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:33:58 PM 1034 Views
~never mind~ *NM* *NM* Aeryn - 12/01/2011 04:42:47 PM 687 Views
I'm going to answer you anyway. Rebekah - 12/01/2011 04:54:18 PM 1093 Views
not to mention nossy - 12/01/2011 05:11:42 PM 1030 Views
In addition Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 05:23:25 PM 971 Views
you don't want kids? random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:46:25 PM 978 Views
bleck nossy - 12/01/2011 11:14:25 PM 981 Views
again not the vibe I get from you random thoughts - 12/01/2011 11:38:26 PM 974 Views
Hehe. Clover - 13/01/2011 12:15:06 AM 1018 Views
Not selfish. Tashmere - 13/01/2011 02:45:43 AM 981 Views
You don't have to be a doctor to contribute to the world random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:27:26 PM 1048 Views
Poor Aeryn Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 05:29:47 PM 969 Views
I replied before she edited random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:41:53 PM 930 Views
Am I at least absolved from having to respond? Aeryn - 15/01/2011 06:11:27 AM 1013 Views
Certainly. *NM* Rebekah - 15/01/2011 09:40:09 AM 625 Views
The primary issue... Jacob - 12/01/2011 05:52:42 PM 950 Views
*NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 05:54:29 PM 554 Views
Agreed; ironically, that first line applies to this thread and mine with the parenting article. Joel - 13/01/2011 10:00:28 PM 1098 Views
What Rebekah said... Clover - 15/01/2011 07:55:34 PM 952 Views
Me too! Clover - 11/01/2011 09:43:57 PM 1042 Views
Re: Me too! Darth_Katie - 12/01/2011 01:23:39 AM 1043 Views
It has been a long, long time since I have seen a woman getting looked down on for staying at home. Tashmere - 12/01/2011 01:48:42 AM 928 Views
I have a fiancee like that. Joel - 12/01/2011 02:14:53 AM 990 Views
I feel so fortunate to be a stay at home mom. Beqi - 12/01/2011 11:32:37 PM 945 Views
My commentary on the whys and wherefores of this stuff would be way too politically incorrect SilverWarder - 11/01/2011 07:56:24 PM 1085 Views
I think all of that makes sense random thoughts - 11/01/2011 08:36:39 PM 1012 Views
In this particular case I don't disagree with you. SilverWarder - 11/01/2011 09:28:13 PM 934 Views
I'm not sure why either sex should surpass the other in math. Joel - 12/01/2011 02:34:09 AM 928 Views
men have more physical strength period random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:30:14 AM 937 Views
There's a lot more to running (especially marathons) then leg strength. Joel - 12/01/2011 05:41:11 AM 937 Views
how much time the experts spend being wrong doesn't make them less wrong random thoughts - 12/01/2011 03:16:10 PM 936 Views
How much more time they've spent studying it before drawing conclusions makes a big difference. Joel - 12/01/2011 05:42:26 PM 938 Views
your right it is just a coincidence that their results always matches their politics random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:56:03 PM 992 Views
There's definitely such a thing as a self fulfilling prophecy. Joel - 12/01/2011 07:00:23 PM 947 Views
so you would trust them if they only admitted conseratives? random thoughts - 12/01/2011 09:51:00 PM 972 Views
Admitted? No, but they'll take anyone with the grades. Joel - 13/01/2011 09:47:42 PM 960 Views
Every study I have seen shows most schools have few to no non-leberal proffesors random thoughts - 13/01/2011 10:07:08 PM 901 Views
Every study I've ever seen shows that math and science fields have few to no women. Joel - 13/01/2011 10:42:46 PM 1024 Views
not when we know men are better at math thewpmen are random thoughts - 13/01/2011 11:10:18 PM 1038 Views
Sigh... we know no such thing, and even if we did, it would be those biased liberals telling us. Joel - 13/01/2011 11:30:33 PM 858 Views
When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 03:47:53 PM 994 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math Macharius - 12/01/2011 04:32:38 PM 908 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 04:41:42 PM 984 Views
Both, really; the latter is a consequence of the former. Joel - 12/01/2011 05:21:28 PM 876 Views
I'm trying to understand your position Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 05:28:43 PM 937 Views
try string theory, it makes more sense than Joel logic random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:57:27 PM 898 Views
Now you've got it. Joel - 12/01/2011 06:40:50 PM 1040 Views
Okay, that's fair. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 06:42:30 PM 539 Views
Glad we were able to reach an understanding. Joel - 13/01/2011 10:02:47 PM 933 Views
Re: I'm trying to understand your position Camilla - 13/01/2011 08:12:05 PM 976 Views
we know the brain of women works differently then the brains of men random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:40:15 PM 991 Views
What evidence I'm aware of seems inconclusive. Joel - 12/01/2011 06:46:50 PM 866 Views
There are theories but of course they are unprovable random thoughts - 12/01/2011 10:50:08 PM 954 Views
That's a logical rationale, and might even be accurate, but in this case I want hard evidence. Joel - 13/01/2011 09:03:32 PM 864 Views
I think if you look you find you believe all sorts of things that can't be proven random thoughts - 13/01/2011 10:03:54 PM 925 Views
I have, and have frequently argued everyone holds such beliefs. Joel - 13/01/2011 10:33:01 PM 826 Views
here is some evdience to argue that it is not society but biology random thoughts - 13/01/2011 08:43:43 PM 982 Views
I think you did like I always do and forgot to give us a way to click your link. Joel - 13/01/2011 09:56:52 PM 978 Views
oops random thoughts - 13/01/2011 10:07:55 PM 1019 Views
Seems like that's an argument for both views, in a way. Joel - 13/01/2011 11:14:11 PM 886 Views
You can use anything to prove what you want if you are willing to spin it hard enough random thoughts - 14/01/2011 02:57:29 PM 1131 Views
I used YOUR article to "prove" what it says outright. Joel - 15/01/2011 05:35:27 PM 1076 Views
I would also like to say this: Rebekah - 11/01/2011 09:33:23 PM 962 Views
Of course Tom - 12/01/2011 01:47:14 AM 1005 Views
Re: Of course Rebekah - 12/01/2011 04:57:11 PM 979 Views
"Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. Legolas - 12/01/2011 07:58:12 PM 1012 Views
Re: "Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. Camilla - 12/01/2011 08:15:59 PM 995 Views
It's true for Arabic and hence, one suspects, Hebrew. Legolas - 13/01/2011 07:43:21 PM 919 Views
I'm glad YOU think it's fun... Joel - 13/01/2011 10:05:07 PM 964 Views
I seem to remember reading about genders in Norwegian once, but I forget now... Legolas - 13/01/2011 10:11:24 PM 1001 Views
I think you may be right, but I'll no more after next week. Joel - 14/01/2011 12:20:54 AM 1082 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: Camilla - 12/01/2011 09:15:28 AM 963 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:27:14 PM 996 Views
No Camilla - 12/01/2011 12:28:48 PM 901 Views
Re: No Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:35:56 PM 863 Views
Re: No Camilla - 12/01/2011 12:37:33 PM 972 Views
Re: No Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:43:36 PM 959 Views
Re: No Camilla - 12/01/2011 12:47:56 PM 992 Views
Since this has become too complicated Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:54:54 PM 1003 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated Camilla - 12/01/2011 12:56:20 PM 996 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated Rebekah - 12/01/2011 04:55:50 PM 935 Views
The two are used as different psychological concepts. Darth_Katie - 12/01/2011 02:24:58 PM 957 Views
Again, used incorrectly. Tom - 12/01/2011 03:34:22 PM 930 Views
Re: Again, used incorrectly. Camilla - 12/01/2011 04:00:59 PM 1010 Views
Exactly. *NM* Rebekah - 12/01/2011 04:53:03 PM 559 Views
It really doesn't surprise me Beqi - 12/01/2011 12:36:19 AM 971 Views
Have you left a memo at the Feminist Movement's Office? Dannymac - 12/01/2011 12:46:45 AM 1002 Views
what the point? Like good liberals they only believe science that agrees with them *NM* random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:31:09 AM 478 Views
Actually, the feminist movement was completely successful. Tom - 12/01/2011 01:42:44 AM 1007 Views
Well put. *NM* everynametaken - 12/01/2011 02:10:56 AM 549 Views
I was playing a bit but I agree that the feminist in the past accomplished a lot random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:34:04 AM 1015 Views
NOW is just a left-leaning PAC. Tom - 12/01/2011 03:16:52 PM 968 Views
I would argue the women's movement and the feminist movement are not the same thing random thoughts - 12/01/2011 03:53:19 PM 927 Views
Now if only others were so rational about it. SilverWarder - 17/01/2011 05:55:57 AM 1965 Views
Nevermind, Tom beat me to it. Avendesora - 12/01/2011 01:54:07 AM 937 Views
Mmm. I don't think you understand the feminist movement. You have been reading to many things Tashmere - 12/01/2011 01:56:20 AM 998 Views
I was refering to groups like NOW random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:40:46 AM 939 Views
Gotcha. Tashmere - 12/01/2011 11:53:29 PM 942 Views
I was being a tad bit trollish with my title random thoughts - 13/01/2011 01:47:30 AM 898 Views
I'm not sure that follows, at all. Joel - 12/01/2011 02:06:41 AM 908 Views
they never mention their study methods Ava - 12/01/2011 02:14:15 PM 989 Views
Gosh, look what you started. nossy - 12/01/2011 03:00:23 PM 989 Views
somebody need to start something it is pretty dead around here *NM* random thoughts - 12/01/2011 03:16:54 PM 565 Views
Seriously *NM* beetnemesis - 12/01/2011 09:56:56 PM 539 Views
I agree that it would be awesome to hang with my kid every day and not have to work. TaskmasterJack - 12/01/2011 11:33:25 PM 998 Views
that part would be great random thoughts - 12/01/2011 11:40:49 PM 953 Views
I could do it every day. TaskmasterJack - 13/01/2011 12:52:56 AM 888 Views
Me too... Jacob - 13/01/2011 02:45:49 PM 1018 Views
So here's the question. Why don't men have a "choice" to opt-out? Aeryn - 15/01/2011 06:13:28 AM 982 Views
They do. Rebekah - 15/01/2011 09:42:29 AM 931 Views
read further up the thread random thoughts - 15/01/2011 10:49:08 AM 998 Views
I really wish that were more socially acceptable. Clover - 15/01/2011 07:58:57 PM 1014 Views
I feel I have that choice. TaskmasterJack - 16/01/2011 12:08:48 AM 947 Views
They most certainly do. Jacob - 18/01/2011 04:39:09 PM 1053 Views
This sounds awful to me. rebelaessedai - 13/01/2011 04:27:08 AM 962 Views
Re: This sounds awful to me. TaskmasterJack - 14/01/2011 02:47:36 AM 983 Views
Yikes. rebelaessedai - 14/01/2011 11:13:39 PM 962 Views
I should have twigged on to that sooner. I would have if I had read more posts before answering. Tashmere - 13/01/2011 02:50:20 AM 974 Views
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