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Every study I've ever seen shows that math and science fields have few to no women. Joel Send a noteboard - 13/01/2011 10:42:46 PM
And most that they do have are in the hard science field. Any time you see a selected group that is that exclusive it make more sense to assume is because the selection process is exclusive. In some fields it isn't surprising to see liberals dominate them but we are talking over 90%.

Do you seriously not see the inconsistency in your position? You're arguing for "outcome based" faculties and citing it as proof of bias in a way that would make the most ardent defender of affirmative action blush.

You can't have it both ways: Either

1) The disproportionate number of liberals in academia is merit based, so liberalism's likely consequence rather than cause and what sociologists and educators say about math evaluation of the sexes has merit OR

2) The disproportionate number of men outperforming women in math is due to bias as surely as the disproportionate number of academias liberals.

The practical difference is is the same; bias is likely in evaluation of the sexs performance on math either because those best qualified to say so DO say so, or because a disproportionate representation in ANY area reflects bias.

If you want to know what I THINK rather than what I KNOW, I'd say men tend to outperform women at math for the same reason liberals tend to get more faculty positions than conservatives: Because they earned them. However, there's at least as much reason to doubt that in the former case as in the latter, if only because advancing the social sciences tends to involve pushing the envelope in a way conservatives don't like, whether it's liberals like Jefferson and Locke or more modern ones.
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This message last edited by Joel on 13/01/2011 at 10:58:53 PM
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Looks like the feminist movement wasn't as successful as it appears - 11/01/2011 06:21:01 PM 1991 Views
I think you're extrapolating a bit too much - 11/01/2011 06:45:38 PM 1083 Views
I don't trust the figures. - 11/01/2011 06:50:24 PM 1093 Views
While I don't 100% agree with the article, some feminists annoy me no end. - 11/01/2011 06:47:03 PM 1101 Views
My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career - 11/01/2011 06:52:11 PM 1088 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career - 12/01/2011 01:36:14 AM 1081 Views
Yeah, got one like that, too. - 12/01/2011 02:17:17 AM 1083 Views
yeah prett much anything gross that isn't in a diaper is my job - 12/01/2011 05:12:11 AM 1011 Views
It's not just that choice though. - 11/01/2011 07:12:48 PM 1132 Views
It feels more hypocritical coming from feminists than "traditionalists". *NM* - 11/01/2011 07:17:24 PM 590 Views
For you maybe. - 11/01/2011 07:27:52 PM 1071 Views
there is definitely some SAHM snobbery - 11/01/2011 08:43:21 PM 1045 Views
Well. - 11/01/2011 09:34:42 PM 1106 Views
I agree. I would also like to add, if I may... - 12/01/2011 01:27:59 AM 1081 Views
all 25 of them? - 12/01/2011 05:14:56 AM 1015 Views
Pffft, look it up a bit. You might find info on the national propaganda radio (NPR) site. - 12/01/2011 12:47:33 PM 1043 Views
It's a difficult dynamic even under the best of circumstances, when both partners have chosen it. - 12/01/2011 02:25:20 PM 928 Views
I agree, it's very difficult. - 12/01/2011 03:14:59 PM 976 Views
it is nuanced - 12/01/2011 03:06:39 PM 992 Views
Re: it is nuanced - 12/01/2011 04:58:36 PM 1013 Views
You are spot on. As usual. About everything. *NM* - 12/01/2011 01:42:18 AM 628 Views
- 12/01/2011 02:25:59 PM 987 Views
I have to admit that this bothers me. - 11/01/2011 07:33:09 PM 1086 Views
I don't expect people to understand my choice necessarily. - 11/01/2011 09:36:52 PM 1109 Views
In addition... - 12/01/2011 05:39:25 PM 987 Views
I guess you think the same of me then. - 11/01/2011 09:48:31 PM 970 Views
Another one? - 12/01/2011 06:01:43 AM 994 Views
Re: Another one? - 12/01/2011 12:33:58 PM 1036 Views
~never mind~ *NM* *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:42:47 PM 688 Views
I'm going to answer you anyway. - 12/01/2011 04:54:18 PM 1094 Views
not to mention - 12/01/2011 05:11:42 PM 1033 Views
In addition - 12/01/2011 05:23:25 PM 971 Views
you don't want kids? - 12/01/2011 05:46:25 PM 978 Views
bleck - 12/01/2011 11:14:25 PM 981 Views
again not the vibe I get from you - 12/01/2011 11:38:26 PM 974 Views
Hehe. - 13/01/2011 12:15:06 AM 1019 Views
Not selfish. - 13/01/2011 02:45:43 AM 982 Views
You don't have to be a doctor to contribute to the world - 12/01/2011 05:27:26 PM 1048 Views
Poor Aeryn - 12/01/2011 05:29:47 PM 970 Views
I replied before she edited - 12/01/2011 05:41:53 PM 931 Views
Am I at least absolved from having to respond? - 15/01/2011 06:11:27 AM 1015 Views
Certainly. *NM* - 15/01/2011 09:40:09 AM 626 Views
The primary issue... - 12/01/2011 05:52:42 PM 950 Views
*NM* - 12/01/2011 05:54:29 PM 556 Views
What Rebekah said... - 15/01/2011 07:55:34 PM 952 Views
Me too! - 11/01/2011 09:43:57 PM 1043 Views
Re: Me too! - 12/01/2011 01:23:39 AM 1043 Views
I have a fiancee like that. - 12/01/2011 02:14:53 AM 990 Views
I feel so fortunate to be a stay at home mom. - 12/01/2011 11:32:37 PM 946 Views
My commentary on the whys and wherefores of this stuff would be way too politically incorrect - 11/01/2011 07:56:24 PM 1085 Views
I think all of that makes sense - 11/01/2011 08:36:39 PM 1014 Views
In this particular case I don't disagree with you. - 11/01/2011 09:28:13 PM 935 Views
I'm not sure why either sex should surpass the other in math. - 12/01/2011 02:34:09 AM 929 Views
men have more physical strength period - 12/01/2011 05:30:14 AM 938 Views
There's a lot more to running (especially marathons) then leg strength. - 12/01/2011 05:41:11 AM 939 Views
how much time the experts spend being wrong doesn't make them less wrong - 12/01/2011 03:16:10 PM 936 Views
How much more time they've spent studying it before drawing conclusions makes a big difference. - 12/01/2011 05:42:26 PM 940 Views
your right it is just a coincidence that their results always matches their politics - 12/01/2011 05:56:03 PM 994 Views
There's definitely such a thing as a self fulfilling prophecy. - 12/01/2011 07:00:23 PM 948 Views
so you would trust them if they only admitted conseratives? - 12/01/2011 09:51:00 PM 972 Views
Admitted? No, but they'll take anyone with the grades. - 13/01/2011 09:47:42 PM 960 Views
Every study I have seen shows most schools have few to no non-leberal proffesors - 13/01/2011 10:07:08 PM 903 Views
Every study I've ever seen shows that math and science fields have few to no women. - 13/01/2011 10:42:46 PM 1025 Views
When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 03:47:53 PM 994 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 04:32:38 PM 909 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 04:41:42 PM 984 Views
Both, really; the latter is a consequence of the former. - 12/01/2011 05:21:28 PM 876 Views
I'm trying to understand your position - 12/01/2011 05:28:43 PM 938 Views
try string theory, it makes more sense than Joel logic - 12/01/2011 05:57:27 PM 899 Views
Now you've got it. - 12/01/2011 06:40:50 PM 1041 Views
Okay, that's fair. *NM* - 12/01/2011 06:42:30 PM 539 Views
Glad we were able to reach an understanding. - 13/01/2011 10:02:47 PM 934 Views
Re: I'm trying to understand your position - 13/01/2011 08:12:05 PM 978 Views
we know the brain of women works differently then the brains of men - 12/01/2011 05:40:15 PM 991 Views
What evidence I'm aware of seems inconclusive. - 12/01/2011 06:46:50 PM 867 Views
here is some evdience to argue that it is not society but biology - 13/01/2011 08:43:43 PM 982 Views
I think you did like I always do and forgot to give us a way to click your link. - 13/01/2011 09:56:52 PM 979 Views
oops - 13/01/2011 10:07:55 PM 1021 Views
Seems like that's an argument for both views, in a way. - 13/01/2011 11:14:11 PM 888 Views
You can use anything to prove what you want if you are willing to spin it hard enough - 14/01/2011 02:57:29 PM 1131 Views
I used YOUR article to "prove" what it says outright. - 15/01/2011 05:35:27 PM 1078 Views
I would also like to say this: - 11/01/2011 09:33:23 PM 963 Views
Of course - 12/01/2011 01:47:14 AM 1006 Views
Re: Of course - 12/01/2011 04:57:11 PM 979 Views
"Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. - 12/01/2011 07:58:12 PM 1013 Views
Re: "Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. - 12/01/2011 08:15:59 PM 996 Views
It's true for Arabic and hence, one suspects, Hebrew. - 13/01/2011 07:43:21 PM 919 Views
I'm glad YOU think it's fun... - 13/01/2011 10:05:07 PM 965 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: - 12/01/2011 09:15:28 AM 964 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: - 12/01/2011 12:27:14 PM 996 Views
No - 12/01/2011 12:28:48 PM 901 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:35:56 PM 863 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:37:33 PM 973 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:43:36 PM 960 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:47:56 PM 992 Views
Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 12:54:54 PM 1004 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 12:56:20 PM 999 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 04:55:50 PM 935 Views
The two are used as different psychological concepts. - 12/01/2011 02:24:58 PM 957 Views
Again, used incorrectly. - 12/01/2011 03:34:22 PM 931 Views
Re: Again, used incorrectly. - 12/01/2011 04:00:59 PM 1011 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:53:03 PM 559 Views
It really doesn't surprise me - 12/01/2011 12:36:19 AM 971 Views
Have you left a memo at the Feminist Movement's Office? - 12/01/2011 12:46:45 AM 1004 Views
Actually, the feminist movement was completely successful. - 12/01/2011 01:42:44 AM 1008 Views
Well put. *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:10:56 AM 550 Views
I was playing a bit but I agree that the feminist in the past accomplished a lot - 12/01/2011 05:34:04 AM 1015 Views
NOW is just a left-leaning PAC. - 12/01/2011 03:16:52 PM 968 Views
Now if only others were so rational about it. - 17/01/2011 05:55:57 AM 1968 Views
Nevermind, Tom beat me to it. - 12/01/2011 01:54:07 AM 937 Views
Mmm. I don't think you understand the feminist movement. You have been reading to many things - 12/01/2011 01:56:20 AM 999 Views
I was refering to groups like NOW - 12/01/2011 05:40:46 AM 939 Views
Gotcha. - 12/01/2011 11:53:29 PM 943 Views
I was being a tad bit trollish with my title - 13/01/2011 01:47:30 AM 898 Views
I'm not sure that follows, at all. - 12/01/2011 02:06:41 AM 908 Views
they never mention their study methods - 12/01/2011 02:14:15 PM 991 Views
Gosh, look what you started. - 12/01/2011 03:00:23 PM 989 Views
somebody need to start something it is pretty dead around here *NM* - 12/01/2011 03:16:54 PM 566 Views
Seriously *NM* - 12/01/2011 09:56:56 PM 540 Views
I agree that it would be awesome to hang with my kid every day and not have to work. - 12/01/2011 11:33:25 PM 999 Views
that part would be great - 12/01/2011 11:40:49 PM 954 Views
I could do it every day. - 13/01/2011 12:52:56 AM 889 Views
Me too... - 13/01/2011 02:45:49 PM 1020 Views
So here's the question. Why don't men have a "choice" to opt-out? - 15/01/2011 06:13:28 AM 982 Views
They do. - 15/01/2011 09:42:29 AM 931 Views
read further up the thread - 15/01/2011 10:49:08 AM 998 Views
I really wish that were more socially acceptable. - 15/01/2011 07:58:57 PM 1014 Views
I feel I have that choice. - 16/01/2011 12:08:48 AM 947 Views
They most certainly do. - 18/01/2011 04:39:09 PM 1053 Views
This sounds awful to me. - 13/01/2011 04:27:08 AM 962 Views
Re: This sounds awful to me. - 14/01/2011 02:47:36 AM 985 Views
Yikes. - 14/01/2011 11:13:39 PM 962 Views

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