So you're gonna ignore the reasons behind the tribe of Benjamin, are you? As well as Sodom and Gommorah? Rape, rape, rape. Battle of Gibeah, the whole tribe almost wiped out? Ring any bells?
(By the way, this does not mean you were lying, just that you were WRONG. Interesting point, you may want to examine it.)
I'm not interested in a language-off with you, either. It's not my gift. But greater minds than ours have worked those texts and I'm gonna believe them on this one.
Simply working from the English, your examination of Paul's text is both correct and incorrect. Granted, the condemnation of indecencies is clear. Given Paul's language regarding all sexuality, however (Better to marry than to burn, etc,) you have to stretch to assume that "indecencies" can be extrapolated to deal to all forms of homosexual sex. There is a difference between picking someone up off a street corner and a committed relationship, a difference Paul only barely explores in heterosexuals and does not consider in homosexuals. The Bible simply does not answer the questions you're asking directly, and your manner of handling the text is akin to using the story of Icarus (were it a sacred text) as a condemnation of spaceflight.
Your final paragraph is simplistic the point of naivete. Sexuality can be sinful. Pride can be sinful. Anger can be sinful. All can also be blessed gifts of God. Simplifying the universe so you can make black and white distinctions makes life easier, but that doesn't make them correct.
(By the way, this does not mean you were lying, just that you were WRONG. Interesting point, you may want to examine it.)
I'm not interested in a language-off with you, either. It's not my gift. But greater minds than ours have worked those texts and I'm gonna believe them on this one.
Simply working from the English, your examination of Paul's text is both correct and incorrect. Granted, the condemnation of indecencies is clear. Given Paul's language regarding all sexuality, however (Better to marry than to burn, etc,) you have to stretch to assume that "indecencies" can be extrapolated to deal to all forms of homosexual sex. There is a difference between picking someone up off a street corner and a committed relationship, a difference Paul only barely explores in heterosexuals and does not consider in homosexuals. The Bible simply does not answer the questions you're asking directly, and your manner of handling the text is akin to using the story of Icarus (were it a sacred text) as a condemnation of spaceflight.
Your final paragraph is simplistic the point of naivete. Sexuality can be sinful. Pride can be sinful. Anger can be sinful. All can also be blessed gifts of God. Simplifying the universe so you can make black and white distinctions makes life easier, but that doesn't make them correct.
Eschew Verbosity
Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A.
11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM
- 1286 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification?
12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM
- 791 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests.
12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM
- 780 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood?
12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM
- 724 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much.
12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM
- 674 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned
12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM
- 675 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route.
14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM
- 648 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible.
14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM
- 704 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means.
14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM
- 874 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy.
14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM
- 680 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though).
12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM
- 744 Views
There's ample precedent for female religious leaders, even within the bible.
12/05/2011 06:51:05 AM
- 776 Views
Since when is Moses' society the be-all end all?
12/05/2011 07:12:41 PM
- 652 Views
Since never, which is why I referenced five other eras you completely ignored.
14/05/2011 01:11:30 AM
- 759 Views
They did so, via negativa.
12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM
- 818 Views
Sorry for the delay, particularly since it looks like I'll be spending a fair amount of time here.
14/05/2011 12:31:33 AM
- 620 Views
Your church has a constitution?!
12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM
- 672 Views
My Church has a congress! *NM*
12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM
- 349 Views
Haha no way! *NM*
12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM
- 298 Views
Well, we have one group of laity and one of bishops, so it is only mildy utter chaos. *NM*
12/05/2011 05:51:09 AM
- 323 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible.
12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM
- 860 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape.
12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM
- 697 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit.
12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM
- 806 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis
12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM
- 751 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any.
12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM
- 715 Views
There are cases in which hypocrisy is far better than the alternatives.
12/05/2011 10:04:32 PM
- 790 Views
Hypocrisy is better than, say, setting gays on fire, yes.
12/05/2011 10:10:40 PM
- 755 Views
My statement is that, from a pragmatic point of view, hypocrisy shouldn't be discouraged too much.
13/05/2011 10:05:39 PM
- 752 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then?
13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM
- 705 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part.
13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM
- 636 Views
The Bible says what it says. The problem... people like to tell us just what else it's saying.
13/05/2011 05:31:29 PM
- 656 Views
You don't reconcile... you pick the parts you like and adjust the rest to suit you.
13/05/2011 09:33:54 PM
- 617 Views
Another example...
12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM
- 612 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct.
12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM
- 590 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats.
12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM
- 651 Views
We both know that isn't the case
12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM
- 757 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM
- 715 Views
No Protestant denomination has added so much as a word to the Bible
12/05/2011 05:58:16 PM
- 590 Views
So, everyone hates Judith, then?
12/05/2011 06:40:11 PM
- 658 Views
The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Churches accept Judith as part of Scripture.
12/05/2011 07:51:27 PM
- 630 Views
Does the Eastern Orthodox Church also segregate deuterocanonical works like Roman Catholicism does?
14/05/2011 02:19:03 AM
- 934 Views
The Eastern Church bases everything on the Septuagint.
14/05/2011 02:34:41 AM
- 683 Views
That sounds appealing, and makes sense.
14/05/2011 02:44:56 AM
- 701 Views
Oh, I just enjoy calling Protestants "heretics" to remind them not everyone agrees with them.
14/05/2011 03:25:42 AM
- 640 Views
Re: Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
12/05/2011 08:52:48 PM
- 662 Views
The NIV is terrible. The NASB has the best translation I have found (of the NT, at least).
12/05/2011 10:43:58 PM
- 801 Views
I find this really weird, to be honest
13/05/2011 05:48:28 AM
- 672 Views
Well, it wasn't just Athanasius. But yes, we are lucky in that respect. *NM*
13/05/2011 06:32:48 AM
- 285 Views
Athanasius's list reflected the victory of Pauline Christianity
13/05/2011 02:52:53 PM
- 627 Views
There's a school of thought that says that's a strong vindication of Athanasius.
14/05/2011 02:37:49 AM
- 571 Views