Athanasius's list reflected the victory of Pauline Christianity
Tom Send a noteboard - 13/05/2011 02:52:53 PM
There were Valentinians, Marcionites, Ophites, Cainites, Docetists and also a church that followed Jesus but held to all the Jewish traditions.
The Bible that has been accepted as canon is the result of the triumph of one particular interpretation of who Christ was and what his message meant. It doesn't take long to figure out who that person is, since the bulk of the New Testament was supposedly written by him - Paul.
There are plenty of fascinating books that describe the controversies of early Christianity. Lost Christianities by Bart D. Ehrman is a good starting point, though I don't really like some of his terminology, which implies that the existing canon is the "right" choice even though his book doesn't. Elaine Pagels' The Gnostic Gospels talks about the nature of the alternative systems, and Who Wrote the New Testament? by Burton L. Mack is a very well-written explanation of the development of the ideas that came to dominate Christianity. Some more academic works include C.W. Griggs, Early Egyptian Christianity, A. Yarbro Collins, Cosmology and Eschatology in Jewish and Christian Apocalypticism, Alan F. Segal, Two Powers in Heaven and Michael Allen Williams, Rethinking "Gnosticism" (the last being an extremely strong book, in my opinion).
If you're interested in a more controversial take on the subject, there is Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy's The Jesus Mysteries (along with the follow-up book, Jesus and the Lost Goddess). This book essentially starts from the standpoint that Gnostic Christianity was the "real" Christianity, that it was a mystery-cult, and that essentially a bunch of idiots who weren't initiated into the inner mysteries then went on to deny that there were any inner mysteries, thus creating standard Pauline Christianity. It's written for the lay reader and raises a lot of very good questions, though of course I think they skew their conclusions a bit. Still, I highly recommend it as something to think about and something that can help an individual re-examine what he believes and why.
However, the point of all this is that if you're wondering why Protestants never "went back" to any of these texts, it's because they'd have to throw out pretty much everything that they believed in order to incorporate the books. No vicarious salvation, no Old Testament, etc. It would essentially be a break, not from Rome, but from the New Testament as we know it.
The Bible that has been accepted as canon is the result of the triumph of one particular interpretation of who Christ was and what his message meant. It doesn't take long to figure out who that person is, since the bulk of the New Testament was supposedly written by him - Paul.
There are plenty of fascinating books that describe the controversies of early Christianity. Lost Christianities by Bart D. Ehrman is a good starting point, though I don't really like some of his terminology, which implies that the existing canon is the "right" choice even though his book doesn't. Elaine Pagels' The Gnostic Gospels talks about the nature of the alternative systems, and Who Wrote the New Testament? by Burton L. Mack is a very well-written explanation of the development of the ideas that came to dominate Christianity. Some more academic works include C.W. Griggs, Early Egyptian Christianity, A. Yarbro Collins, Cosmology and Eschatology in Jewish and Christian Apocalypticism, Alan F. Segal, Two Powers in Heaven and Michael Allen Williams, Rethinking "Gnosticism" (the last being an extremely strong book, in my opinion).
If you're interested in a more controversial take on the subject, there is Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy's The Jesus Mysteries (along with the follow-up book, Jesus and the Lost Goddess). This book essentially starts from the standpoint that Gnostic Christianity was the "real" Christianity, that it was a mystery-cult, and that essentially a bunch of idiots who weren't initiated into the inner mysteries then went on to deny that there were any inner mysteries, thus creating standard Pauline Christianity. It's written for the lay reader and raises a lot of very good questions, though of course I think they skew their conclusions a bit. Still, I highly recommend it as something to think about and something that can help an individual re-examine what he believes and why.
However, the point of all this is that if you're wondering why Protestants never "went back" to any of these texts, it's because they'd have to throw out pretty much everything that they believed in order to incorporate the books. No vicarious salvation, no Old Testament, etc. It would essentially be a break, not from Rome, but from the New Testament as we know it.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Tom on 13/05/2011 at 02:54:40 PM
Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A.
11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM
- 1286 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification?
12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM
- 791 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests.
12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM
- 780 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood?
12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM
- 724 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much.
12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM
- 674 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned
12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM
- 675 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route.
14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM
- 648 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible.
14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM
- 703 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means.
14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM
- 874 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy.
14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM
- 680 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though).
12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM
- 744 Views
There's ample precedent for female religious leaders, even within the bible.
12/05/2011 06:51:05 AM
- 776 Views
Since when is Moses' society the be-all end all?
12/05/2011 07:12:41 PM
- 652 Views
Since never, which is why I referenced five other eras you completely ignored.
14/05/2011 01:11:30 AM
- 759 Views
They did so, via negativa.
12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM
- 818 Views
Sorry for the delay, particularly since it looks like I'll be spending a fair amount of time here.
14/05/2011 12:31:33 AM
- 620 Views
Your church has a constitution?!
12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM
- 672 Views
My Church has a congress! *NM*
12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM
- 349 Views
Haha no way! *NM*
12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM
- 298 Views
Well, we have one group of laity and one of bishops, so it is only mildy utter chaos. *NM*
12/05/2011 05:51:09 AM
- 322 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible.
12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM
- 860 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape.
12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM
- 697 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit.
12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM
- 806 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis
12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM
- 750 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any.
12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM
- 714 Views
There are cases in which hypocrisy is far better than the alternatives.
12/05/2011 10:04:32 PM
- 789 Views
Hypocrisy is better than, say, setting gays on fire, yes.
12/05/2011 10:10:40 PM
- 754 Views
My statement is that, from a pragmatic point of view, hypocrisy shouldn't be discouraged too much.
13/05/2011 10:05:39 PM
- 752 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then?
13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM
- 705 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part.
13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM
- 636 Views
The Bible says what it says. The problem... people like to tell us just what else it's saying.
13/05/2011 05:31:29 PM
- 656 Views
You don't reconcile... you pick the parts you like and adjust the rest to suit you.
13/05/2011 09:33:54 PM
- 616 Views
Another example...
12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM
- 612 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct.
12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM
- 590 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats.
12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM
- 651 Views
We both know that isn't the case
12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM
- 757 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM
- 714 Views
No Protestant denomination has added so much as a word to the Bible
12/05/2011 05:58:16 PM
- 589 Views
So, everyone hates Judith, then?
12/05/2011 06:40:11 PM
- 658 Views
The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Churches accept Judith as part of Scripture.
12/05/2011 07:51:27 PM
- 629 Views
Does the Eastern Orthodox Church also segregate deuterocanonical works like Roman Catholicism does?
14/05/2011 02:19:03 AM
- 933 Views
The Eastern Church bases everything on the Septuagint.
14/05/2011 02:34:41 AM
- 683 Views
That sounds appealing, and makes sense.
14/05/2011 02:44:56 AM
- 701 Views
Oh, I just enjoy calling Protestants "heretics" to remind them not everyone agrees with them.
14/05/2011 03:25:42 AM
- 639 Views
Re: Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
12/05/2011 08:52:48 PM
- 662 Views
The NIV is terrible. The NASB has the best translation I have found (of the NT, at least).
12/05/2011 10:43:58 PM
- 801 Views
I find this really weird, to be honest
13/05/2011 05:48:28 AM
- 671 Views
Well, it wasn't just Athanasius. But yes, we are lucky in that respect. *NM*
13/05/2011 06:32:48 AM
- 285 Views
Athanasius's list reflected the victory of Pauline Christianity
13/05/2011 02:52:53 PM
- 627 Views
There's a school of thought that says that's a strong vindication of Athanasius.
14/05/2011 02:37:49 AM
- 571 Views