Oh, but they know that; in many cases, they exult in it.
Joel Send a noteboard - 14/05/2011 06:06:01 AM

It's in the spirit of the joke about the man who went to Heaven and gets a tour from St. Peter. They walk past church after church, and the man looks in and sees people singing and praying, and then they sneak past the doors of the next church. "That's the Baptist church," says St. Peter. "They think they're the only ones here."
Heh, nice, though the Baptist Churchs course over the years is saddening. What would Roger Williams (let alone Christ) say?
The Orthodox Church is far less legalistic than the Catholic Church because it recognizes that there is much we cannot understand with our limited faculties (we see through a glass and dimly). It will take doctrine up to a certain point and after that it will declare that the matter is a "Divine Mystery" and attempt no further explanation. This kept the Orthodox Church from lots of silly doctrines (like Limbo).
IMHO that would keep a lot of people from silly doctrines while preserving all vital ones. That's not to say the great mysteries shouldn't be considered, because they provide perspective on both God and man, but the latters limitations make conclusions speculative, and thus unsuitable for inviolable doctrine as such. If one comes to conclusions of which they are certain one is obviously bound to observe them as a matter of conscience, but enforcing them on others is presumptuous. In a way, that's what I think has happened with this ordination issue; people are not only free but obligated to follow their conscience (I don't ever expect God to ask me if I did what Paul or Moses told me) but not to teach it, not unless there's a firm doctrinal basis that doesn't seem possible in this case (quite the opposite).
Another advantage it has is that it has an unbroken line of faith from the earliest churches (Orthodox churches still stand in many of the cities Paul wrote to), through the Roman Empire and Byzantine period all the way to the present, without any Latin innovations. If you want to find a Church that just DOES NOT CHANGE ANYTHING EVER FOR ANY REASON, it's the Orthodox Church. The priests still wear the style of robes and hats that were worn in the era of Constantine the Great, the same a capella music is sung with the same rules, the order of the Divine Liturgy has not changed one iota (a very literal statement for those who retain the original Greek of the first Christian communities), and doctrine has not changed. The world may change, but not the Orthodox Church.
Which can be both good and bad. It's important to distinguish between forms and substance; the former is largely irrelevant but the latter is literally sacrosanct. If I were to pick a denomination it would probably be that one, but I realize that a lot of the appeal is that it's always affirmed some doctrines I like that are almost or entirely absent from Roman Catholic and Protestant Churches, and there's the rub: Given greater familiarity with Orthodox doctrine I'm sure I could find plenty of things to confirm my non-denominationalism.


Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A.
11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM
- 1438 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification?
12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM
- 987 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests.
12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM
- 921 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood?
12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM
- 861 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much.
12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM
- 810 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned
12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM
- 819 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route.
14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM
- 776 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible.
14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM
- 848 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means.
14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM
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As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy.
14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM
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Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though).
12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM
- 903 Views
There's ample precedent for female religious leaders, even within the bible.
12/05/2011 06:51:05 AM
- 935 Views
Since when is Moses' society the be-all end all?
12/05/2011 07:12:41 PM
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Since never, which is why I referenced five other eras you completely ignored.
14/05/2011 01:11:30 AM
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They did so, via negativa.
12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM
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Sorry for the delay, particularly since it looks like I'll be spending a fair amount of time here.
14/05/2011 12:31:33 AM
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Your church has a constitution?!
12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM
- 827 Views
My Church has a congress!
*NM*
12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM
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Haha no way! *NM*
12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM
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Well, we have one group of laity and one of bishops, so it is only mildy utter chaos.
*NM*
12/05/2011 05:51:09 AM
- 398 Views

I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible.
12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM
- 1014 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape.
12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM
- 844 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit.
12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM
- 975 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis
12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM
- 891 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any.
12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM
- 859 Views
There are cases in which hypocrisy is far better than the alternatives.
12/05/2011 10:04:32 PM
- 935 Views
Hypocrisy is better than, say, setting gays on fire, yes.
12/05/2011 10:10:40 PM
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My statement is that, from a pragmatic point of view, hypocrisy shouldn't be discouraged too much.
13/05/2011 10:05:39 PM
- 907 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then?
13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM
- 862 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part.
13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM
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The Bible says what it says. The problem... people like to tell us just what else it's saying.
13/05/2011 05:31:29 PM
- 825 Views
You don't reconcile... you pick the parts you like and adjust the rest to suit you.
13/05/2011 09:33:54 PM
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Another example...
12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM
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If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct.
12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM
- 757 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats.
12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM
- 797 Views
We both know that isn't the case
12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM
- 900 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM
- 862 Views
No Protestant denomination has added so much as a word to the Bible
12/05/2011 05:58:16 PM
- 733 Views
So, everyone hates Judith, then?
12/05/2011 06:40:11 PM
- 811 Views
The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Churches accept Judith as part of Scripture.
12/05/2011 07:51:27 PM
- 772 Views
Does the Eastern Orthodox Church also segregate deuterocanonical works like Roman Catholicism does?
14/05/2011 02:19:03 AM
- 1085 Views
The Eastern Church bases everything on the Septuagint.
14/05/2011 02:34:41 AM
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That sounds appealing, and makes sense.
14/05/2011 02:44:56 AM
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Oh, I just enjoy calling Protestants "heretics" to remind them not everyone agrees with them.
14/05/2011 03:25:42 AM
- 787 Views
Oh, but they know that; in many cases, they exult in it.
14/05/2011 06:06:01 AM
- 791 Views

Re: Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
12/05/2011 08:52:48 PM
- 810 Views
The NIV is terrible. The NASB has the best translation I have found (of the NT, at least).
12/05/2011 10:43:58 PM
- 950 Views
I find this really weird, to be honest
13/05/2011 05:48:28 AM
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Well, it wasn't just Athanasius. But yes, we are lucky in that respect. *NM*
13/05/2011 06:32:48 AM
- 339 Views
Athanasius's list reflected the victory of Pauline Christianity
13/05/2011 02:52:53 PM
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There's a school of thought that says that's a strong vindication of Athanasius.
14/05/2011 02:37:49 AM
- 734 Views
