Active Users:494 Time:02/05/2025 06:31:41 PM
But how? Bramhodoulos Send a noteboard - 06/08/2011 07:52:10 PM
Even if you can only measure it after the fact, that doesn't mean it cannot be "predicted or tested."

You can't KNOW, or ACCURATELY predict ANYTHING that has never been tested before, but you can make predictions, do tests, and study the results. This would apply to determining whether a new trait is beneficial for a population of organisms as much as it would to anything else in science.


Let's say that a new trait has been found, or made in a lab and you want to determin whether it is beneficial for a population (that is what you propose).
Oke, well, let's test it.

How shall we proceed? Well, there are various ways, we could introduce this new trait to either a lab environment with other individuals who do not have this trait and see who survives, or we can "let it loose" (either a single organism, or a small population of organisms we let reproduce in the lab).

Next, what can we measure. Well, we can measure if that trait is still present in the test population after X number of generations, let math do it's work to determine how much generations we need and how many individuals we need to test in order to determine the frequency with a reasonable amount of certainty.

There are several scenario's possible, but lets just pick 3 possible outcomes.
A) the trait has disappeared
B) the trait does still occur, but at a low frequency, about the same frequency it was there at the start
C) the trait occurs in (almost) all individuals

In case A we conclude: the trait was not beneficial, when B we conclude that it was (near) neutral and when C we conclude that it was beneficial.

Fine, but that only works IF natural selection is true in the tautological form. So we have not tested or proven (or disproven) natural selection.
Reply to message
Natural selection - 06/08/2011 03:51:26 PM 1085 Views
selection for suitability - 06/08/2011 04:18:51 PM 731 Views
Thanks for your responce - 06/08/2011 04:41:20 PM 846 Views
I can't speak for LadyLorraine and won't try, but here's how I see it: - 06/08/2011 06:49:49 PM 793 Views
Just a question - 06/08/2011 07:18:09 PM 774 Views
Yes it can - 06/08/2011 07:41:59 PM 654 Views
But how? - 06/08/2011 07:52:10 PM 849 Views
Okay, I think I see what you're saying - 08/08/2011 05:30:43 PM 665 Views
Close - 08/08/2011 05:41:46 PM 864 Views
Re: Just a question - 06/08/2011 07:49:21 PM 870 Views
I'm not sure I understand you - 06/08/2011 08:20:44 PM 772 Views
All tautologies are truisms, but not all truisms are tautologies. - 06/08/2011 09:38:12 PM 793 Views
Then it is still a tautology - 06/08/2011 09:45:33 PM 801 Views
You can know it's beneifical to a particular individual, but it's harder to say for populations. - 06/08/2011 10:18:16 PM 904 Views
Maybe... - 07/08/2011 01:55:54 PM 758 Views
As I understand it - 06/08/2011 06:04:44 PM 724 Views
Better... - 06/08/2011 06:36:38 PM 704 Views
Actually - 06/08/2011 10:13:51 PM 793 Views
Re: Actually - 06/08/2011 10:37:33 PM 933 Views
Re: Actually - 06/08/2011 11:38:52 PM 859 Views
Oeh - 07/08/2011 01:54:19 PM 710 Views
Hmmm... there's some truth to that - 06/08/2011 06:36:35 PM 805 Views
Re: Hmmm... there's some truth to that - 06/08/2011 07:08:25 PM 805 Views
Re: Hmmm... there's some truth to that - 07/08/2011 12:46:23 AM 799 Views
The complexity of the problem makes it all but impossible to falsify... - 06/08/2011 08:26:06 PM 827 Views
The questions go deeper - 06/08/2011 08:38:31 PM 818 Views
Re: The questions go deeper - 06/08/2011 09:10:32 PM 808 Views
I think I know why you don't understand my question. - 06/08/2011 09:38:41 PM 830 Views
TalkOrigins addresses this at length. - 06/08/2011 11:14:52 PM 882 Views
Not very much, but interesting none the less - 06/08/2011 11:38:36 PM 879 Views
Re: Natural selection - 07/08/2011 03:00:30 AM 803 Views
Thanks a lot - 07/08/2011 01:38:39 PM 947 Views
2 things - 07/08/2011 04:00:35 PM 710 Views
Re: 2 things - 07/08/2011 04:33:00 PM 927 Views
Re: 2 things - 07/08/2011 05:48:26 PM 741 Views
My best guess - 07/08/2011 06:00:28 PM 777 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 06:37:58 PM 715 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 06:47:26 PM 874 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 07:02:27 PM 718 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 09:09:57 PM 827 Views

Reply to Message