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Re: There still seems to be some overlap. Joel Send a noteboard - 18/01/2012 10:27:32 PM
I am not sure what, if any, legal repercussions there would be a to a site or its operators if it "facilitated" people obtaining or distributing the blueprints for an MX missile, but under the proposed legislation would impose significant criminal penalties for that as surely as for facilitating mpeg downloads.


SOPA/PIPA have nothing to do with this. It's not a matter of increasing national security at all.

You don't seem aware the US judicial system is already fully equiped to deal with all the examples you've produced. If the Pentagon gets hacked and secret data stolen, it's espionnage. If a US company gets hacked and its proprietary data gets stolen, it's espionnage. Laws already exist for all this, and extradition treaties between several nations are in place. The US government could already sue Google if it considered it helped disseminate state secrets, if it so wished.

Again I am reminded of Wikileaks obtaining Pentagon lists of Al Qaeda informants in Pakistan, which they then posted on their site.

US Defense Dept. (in concert with Amnesty Intl. et al.): Take down those names, you are endangering peoples lives!

Julian Assange: Go to Hell, fascists!

Yeah, existing civil law worked SO well then. :rolleyes: Personally, giving the government authority to block Wikileaks in the wake of something like that seems reasonable to me; it is just too bad they could not block it globally.

The proposed legislation is meant to protect American commercial interests (at the detriments or risk to other American and non-American business interests). Trademarks, copyrighted images, music, movies and so on. It does so by allowing corporations to get websites blacklisted, or deprive it of their sources of income from advertising, all without even a law suit and proven guilt. It threatens all the American Internet giants like Google, Facebook You Tube and so on (could even make some of them move out of the US to nations where they would be less vulnerable. The US are currently the world leader in web development and this is an important economical sector, SOPA/PIPA would seriously endanger that.

There's so much opposition to it worlwide including from within the US (and not the least from Silicon Valley) isn't because people are against stopping piracy of cultural products, it's because it gives the US corporations way, way too much power as the two projects as they stand are full of backdoors to abuses, censorship, or violations of freedom of expression, and violation of "fair use". And it's all up to the sites, not the US corporations which claim copyright violations, to take the measures to prove in the US they are not guilty. Considering the business ethics in foreign countries of many of the US major cultural corporations, and with all the lobby groups in the US that would like nothing more than an opportunity to censor information on the internet and could very well find ways to do this abusing SOPA/PIPA, it's all very troubling from the foreign front, all the more since the means to go around the new legislations are already emerging (and it's nothing good, for anyone).

The MPAA and co. already have tons of tools under US law to protect its copyrights. It just managed to have a UK guy whose site merely posted links, not actual content, to pirated American content extradited. It doesn't need SOPA/PIPA for this, not in most foreign nations. Everybody knows its main targets with SOPA/PIPA are rogue nations where pirates are out of reach for US corporations and which don't recognize US copyrights, from which most of the piracy cases originate, China above all. It's a very high risk and high price to pay to curtail piracy of Disney movies in China, especially when you consider that so far the MPAA is not even able to demonstrate losses from actual lost sales because of piracy.

The bills AS THEY STAND are full of problems, some of them quite serious. Again, provide an alternative as Obama has publicly requested. There WILL be a law, sooner or later; the only question is whether responsible netizens use their rightful voice in its form, or reduce the debate to guys in three piece suits vs. guys in tinfoil hats. If you were Congress, which one would get YOUR attention?
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English Wikipedia Anti-SOPA Blackout - 17/01/2012 08:31:46 AM 2049 Views
Yeah, man, because currently copyright holders have no recourse, am I right? - 17/01/2012 11:47:35 AM 877 Views
"altering the infrastructure of the Internet so as to render RAFO virtually inaccessible"? - 17/01/2012 08:12:27 PM 988 Views
I'll go ahead and ask before I get my panties in a bunch: do you understand these bills? - 17/01/2012 09:09:22 PM 1065 Views
I admit I have not looked into it much - 17/01/2012 11:42:30 PM 934 Views
And yet you're still arguing the matter. - 18/01/2012 02:34:04 AM 1041 Views
I love you. *NM* - 18/01/2012 03:41:03 AM 605 Views
heh, thanks. I usually find myself pushing minority opinions. Nice to be "appreciated" for once. *NM* - 18/01/2012 04:01:10 AM 585 Views
Can i second the adulation? - 18/01/2012 04:07:17 AM 772 Views
I too (three?) appreciate the common sense and reasonable explanations. *NM* - 18/01/2012 04:12:59 AM 595 Views
Thanks guys. - 18/01/2012 04:39:00 AM 928 Views
Right, because the argument is not just over THIS bill but, apparently, over ANY bill. - 18/01/2012 11:09:13 AM 933 Views
Alternatives to SOPA/PIPA have been proposed for months now. Please stop arguing this. - 18/01/2012 05:42:10 PM 891 Views
That is really all I ask. - 18/01/2012 06:26:37 PM 927 Views
"sensitive federal content"? Provide a source justifying this claim and it's relevance, please. - 18/01/2012 05:59:47 PM 946 Views
I would not have thought a source necessary. - 18/01/2012 06:24:44 PM 949 Views
Okay, I'm with Aemon now. - 18/01/2012 07:36:21 PM 966 Views
OK. - 18/01/2012 10:16:16 PM 987 Views
Surreal. It's like you're a spam-bot or something. *NM* - 19/01/2012 01:23:35 AM 721 Views
That was constructive. - 19/01/2012 03:29:53 PM 863 Views
Very nicely summarised. *NM* - 18/01/2012 02:06:02 AM 526 Views
should be interesting - 17/01/2012 12:41:47 PM 811 Views
Could be; depends on a lot of factors. - 17/01/2012 07:38:55 PM 874 Views
See, that's one of the biggest problems that people aren't understanding. - 17/01/2012 09:31:38 PM 890 Views
So tell them that. - 17/01/2012 11:54:19 PM 1029 Views
Could've done without the snide rejoinder, but, good. - 17/01/2012 02:20:08 PM 815 Views
I love the black banner, like some kind of internet Holocaust. - 17/01/2012 08:03:27 PM 954 Views
Are you aware that SOPA/PIPA has nothing to do with hackers and everything to do with copyright? - 18/01/2012 02:08:56 AM 796 Views
There seems to be some overlap. - 18/01/2012 01:08:22 PM 917 Views
Re: There seems to be some overlap. - 18/01/2012 08:13:15 PM 791 Views
Re: There still seems to be some overlap. - 18/01/2012 10:27:32 PM 1053 Views
Er, what Ghav said. - 18/01/2012 02:30:37 AM 818 Views
Sorry, protecting Pirate Bay and offshore gambling are not compelling counterarguments. - 18/01/2012 11:38:08 AM 865 Views
Okay, another analogy: - 18/01/2012 02:04:12 PM 843 Views
A technical examination of SOPA and PROTECT IP - 18/01/2012 08:32:44 AM 823 Views
"As a disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, I'm a sysadmin." - 18/01/2012 12:47:16 PM 1083 Views
wow, you are totally correct! - 18/01/2012 03:45:54 PM 855 Views
That is a separate issue. - 18/01/2012 04:01:24 PM 855 Views
Thank you for posting that. - 18/01/2012 03:09:07 PM 878 Views
Wikipedia has already convinced me - 18/01/2012 03:26:01 PM 703 Views
Trying to stop this legislation without proposing an alternative is trying to stop ANY legislation. - 18/01/2012 03:44:18 PM 929 Views
It isn't their job to propose legislation - 18/01/2012 04:12:53 PM 849 Views
No, but they have as much RIGHT to do so as anyone else. - 18/01/2012 05:31:55 PM 828 Views
Strike three. - 18/01/2012 05:37:55 PM 877 Views
That is fine; that is what people SHOULD be doing. - 18/01/2012 06:03:59 PM 702 Views
Things being better now than they would be under SOPA seems like a legitimate argument to me - 18/01/2012 09:04:18 PM 965 Views
Against SOPA, sure; against ANY new law, no. - 18/01/2012 10:46:48 PM 807 Views
Re: Against SOPA, sure; against ANY new law, no. - 19/01/2012 12:15:48 AM 884 Views
That is a poor approach to drafting legislation, at best. - 19/01/2012 04:37:22 PM 928 Views
About "proposing new legislation" - 18/01/2012 04:45:08 PM 963 Views
So true - 18/01/2012 05:08:45 PM 896 Views
Not to go off on a tangent about combatting piracy... - 18/01/2012 05:38:12 PM 803 Views
Entirely agree *NM* - 18/01/2012 06:13:13 PM 578 Views
That was an excellent post. *NM* - 19/01/2012 11:18:19 PM 557 Views
Re: About "proposing new legislation" - 18/01/2012 05:59:55 PM 1039 Views
For those who want a short, one page explanation... - 18/01/2012 05:41:49 PM 821 Views
Yeah, so I use Russian wikipedia for a day. Or German wikipedia, or French, or Italian... *NM* - 18/01/2012 06:23:36 PM 643 Views
We get it: You are a polyglot. - 18/01/2012 06:27:48 PM 831 Views
Or just hit stop right before the script runs. *NM* - 18/01/2012 06:52:40 PM 613 Views
Or just disable Java. *NM* - 19/01/2012 01:58:03 AM 492 Views
That's not as much fun though. *NM* - 19/01/2012 02:13:44 AM 609 Views
Exactly, this way its kind of a game. *NM* - 19/01/2012 02:20:37 AM 432 Views
Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia... - 19/01/2012 01:07:38 AM 951 Views
They all did it on twitter - 19/01/2012 01:26:19 AM 884 Views
I was asleep much of the day - 19/01/2012 02:40:11 AM 949 Views
Oh, no; now Congress will be inundated with complaints from lazy college students! - 19/01/2012 04:40:12 PM 977 Views
13 previously unopposed senators now do not support SOPA. - 19/01/2012 11:36:15 PM 930 Views
How does that "rebutt" what was a facetious post in the first place? - 20/01/2012 09:24:27 PM 1035 Views
a joke can, indeed, be rebutted... - 21/01/2012 09:07:32 PM 915 Views
Oh, draggie, I ALWAYS see what you do there. - 21/01/2012 10:01:58 PM 874 Views

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