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Who are you to decide that? Legolas Send a noteboard - 26/07/2012 12:16:45 AM
The United States is a nation of immigrants that also imported millions of Africans against their will, only to free them from bondage in the Civil War. To become "an American", all one has to do is enter legally, spend a few years as a permanent resident, pass an English and civics test and take an oath. Very few people are excluded.

By contrast, one cannot become Greek just by becoming a citizen of Greece, any more than one could become Russian, or German or French. Unlike the United States (and a few other countries), most nations are ethnic homelands for distinct cultures.

I don't think I need to explain to you about the traditional "French nationalism vs. German nationalism" comparison back in the nineteenth and early twentieth century, and obviously the Germans rejected their brand of nationalism rather fast after WW2, so the European countries (other than their far-right parties, of course) are all more or less committed to the "French" brand (or American, if you prefer).

Now, I do think that it's foolish to drive things as far as the Netherlands, where scientists are now complaining that they are losing valuable information by being prevented from distinguishing between third-generation immigrant citizens and autochthonous Dutch citizens in their data, but I certainly think that an immigrant "can become Greek/French/... just by becoming a citizen of Greece/France/...", as much as an immigrant in the US can become American just by becoming a citizen of America.
As a result, I characterize (and I think most people, including most Europeans, would agree) the debate around immigration into European nations, whether legal or illegal, as at the same level as the issue about illegal immigration in the United States. I'm not saying that I espouse the views of people who want no immigration at all (I don't) but I think they still have a right to have those views.

The debates are similar, yes.
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Am I the only one who thinks Voula Papachristou should not have been kicked out of the Olympics? Tom - 25/07/2012 10:55:19 PM 1428 Views
Being on a country's Olympic team is a privilege, not a right Dark Knight - 25/07/2012 11:00:24 PM 899 Views
So banning blacks would be cool if it was legal in that country? Cannoli - 25/07/2012 11:08:52 PM 1041 Views
If that's how the country wants to run itself Dark Knight - 25/07/2012 11:13:04 PM 920 Views
The IOC can ban nations from participating for that sort of stunt. Legolas - 25/07/2012 11:33:23 PM 1072 Views
So that excuses thought control? Tom - 25/07/2012 11:49:58 PM 979 Views
If Hitler could let Jesse Owens run... Cannoli - 25/07/2012 11:07:19 PM 1113 Views
Yes. Political power should not be used to enforce morals. Tom - 25/07/2012 11:53:19 PM 847 Views
The national Olympic Committees aren't the government. Legolas - 26/07/2012 12:02:43 AM 831 Views
Even worse. Tom - 26/07/2012 12:08:05 AM 876 Views
Erm snoopcester - 26/07/2012 12:29:32 AM 920 Views
I fail to see how the whole team would be thrown out. Tom - 26/07/2012 12:41:16 AM 910 Views
Because the IOC throws them out if the national government interferes in the national committe. *NM* snoopcester - 26/07/2012 12:43:39 AM 483 Views
Well, that's absurd. Tom - 26/07/2012 01:09:41 AM 990 Views
As with most things, I doubt the practice matches the theory snoopcester - 26/07/2012 10:45:55 AM 888 Views
Africans != illegals Tim - 25/07/2012 11:19:32 PM 950 Views
Specious reasoning. Tom - 26/07/2012 12:07:08 AM 815 Views
Who are you to decide that? Legolas - 26/07/2012 12:16:45 AM 980 Views
I'm not the one deciding. Tom - 26/07/2012 12:36:17 AM 818 Views
Essentially you're saying "there are lots of racists in Europe". Tim - 26/07/2012 08:28:26 AM 938 Views
That's an oversimplification. Tom - 29/07/2012 03:13:14 AM 891 Views
You stated it as a fact. Legolas - 26/07/2012 07:49:58 PM 861 Views
Well, it is a fact that a north African could never become ethnically Greek. Tom - 29/07/2012 03:27:50 AM 982 Views
I think any organisation should have the right to choose who represents them snoopcester - 25/07/2012 11:20:36 PM 888 Views
Well, but that's not the end of it. Tom - 26/07/2012 12:12:09 AM 954 Views
It is for me snoopcester - 26/07/2012 12:26:25 AM 866 Views
So...conformity ahead? *NM* Tom - 26/07/2012 12:40:03 AM 418 Views
Athletes taking responsibility for their own actions, if that is what you mean. snoopcester - 26/07/2012 12:44:56 AM 1025 Views
Is that all that happened? nossy - 25/07/2012 11:28:17 PM 832 Views
That and some pro-Golden Dawn statements. Tom - 26/07/2012 12:14:25 AM 1022 Views
For me it is more than enough snoopcester - 26/07/2012 12:32:35 AM 801 Views
I thought the original ideals of the Olympics were to honor Zeus. *NM* Tom - 26/07/2012 12:38:32 AM 539 Views
I view the long dead Greek Olympics as seperate, despite the shared name, from the modern Olympics *NM* snoopcester - 26/07/2012 12:42:18 AM 436 Views
It's not what happened to her that I typically waver on. nossy - 27/07/2012 03:08:45 PM 839 Views
Difficult question - if you ask me, the key point is a question of authority. Legolas - 25/07/2012 11:40:39 PM 915 Views
I just googled "What did Voula Papachristou say?" and got that. Tom - 26/07/2012 12:16:53 AM 962 Views
Well it seems a bit of an over-reaction, and I doubt the purity of motives of those doing it, but... Isaac - 26/07/2012 01:49:35 AM 809 Views
Re: Am I the only one who thinks Voula Papachristou should not have been kicked out of the Olympics? Great Lord of Chaos - 26/07/2012 11:14:39 AM 1256 Views
I'm going to boycott by turning off the Olympics and watching Michelle Jenneke nonstop instead. *NM* everynametaken - 26/07/2012 09:02:59 PM 484 Views
It's not a matter of freedom of expression DomA - 26/07/2012 09:49:59 PM 1029 Views
This. *NM* ironclad - 26/07/2012 10:26:37 PM 437 Views
I oppose censorship even if it is not comng from the government random thoughts - 26/07/2012 10:16:30 PM 871 Views
How is it censorship? DomA - 27/07/2012 02:33:30 AM 966 Views
try looking up the word censorship and ask yourself would their actions supress speech random thoughts - 27/07/2012 02:59:11 AM 1090 Views
I know the definition thank you. How exactly was her communication suppressed? DomA - 27/07/2012 05:54:39 PM 992 Views
you are right public punishment of political expression could never been seen as suppression random thoughts - 27/07/2012 06:20:15 PM 1108 Views
Well nossy - 27/07/2012 07:20:27 PM 868 Views
Where did she ever imply she wanted them to be bitten? *NM* random thoughts - 27/07/2012 08:03:05 PM 502 Views
Hello earth.... "food from home". DomA - 27/07/2012 08:26:15 PM 836 Views
OK I repeat my question: Where did she she WANTED them to be bit? random thoughts - 30/07/2012 09:07:01 PM 1156 Views
Um, she referred to them as food? nossy - 27/07/2012 08:38:22 PM 910 Views
No what is silly is inferring that she hoped they would be bitten *NM* random thoughts - 30/07/2012 09:09:18 PM 555 Views
No what is silly is inferring that she hoped they would be bitten *NM* random thoughts - 30/07/2012 09:09:27 PM 465 Views
I'm with you on this - I don't think she wanted them to be bitten. Legolas - 27/07/2012 09:02:05 PM 911 Views
Re: I'm with you on this - I don't think she wanted them to be bitten. DomA - 27/07/2012 09:32:56 PM 970 Views
Do you have to go to special schools to learn how to read that much into dumb jokes? random thoughts - 30/07/2012 09:57:21 PM 990 Views
It was insensitive at best random thoughts - 30/07/2012 09:25:06 PM 1428 Views
Re: you are right public punishment of political expression could never been seen as suppression DomA - 27/07/2012 08:30:26 PM 855 Views
One problem. nossy - 27/07/2012 04:54:52 AM 871 Views
Exactly ironclad - 27/07/2012 12:05:14 PM 873 Views
where do you people get these backasswards idea of what censorship is? PCmart? random thoughts - 27/07/2012 02:01:29 PM 930 Views
We can have this conversation w/o you being mean. nossy - 27/07/2012 02:57:02 PM 912 Views
I never claimed I was against repercussions and people here are denying it is censorship random thoughts - 27/07/2012 04:18:54 PM 979 Views
Re: I never claimed I was against repercussions and people here are denying it is censorship nossy - 27/07/2012 05:01:37 PM 892 Views
OK did I miss read what you said? random thoughts - 27/07/2012 06:41:51 PM 1036 Views
No, but the disagreement is important. nossy - 27/07/2012 07:09:11 PM 869 Views
Re: I never claimed I was against repercussions and people here are denying it is censorship DomA - 27/07/2012 06:23:17 PM 816 Views
sorry I forgot the Olympic spirit was about banning athletes for dumb jokes they apologized for random thoughts - 27/07/2012 08:30:08 PM 808 Views
You're really not going to make sense of this if you keep mashing everything together. Legolas - 27/07/2012 08:59:35 PM 832 Views
Re: You're really not going to make sense of this if you keep mashing everything together. DomA - 27/07/2012 09:18:08 PM 913 Views
I know who did the banning but the whole organization seems to infested with a certain flavor of PC random thoughts - 30/07/2012 10:11:26 PM 982 Views
Re: sorry I forgot the Olympic spirit was about banning athletes for dumb jokes they apologized for DomA - 27/07/2012 09:01:07 PM 830 Views
I know you said it but do you actually believe it? random thoughts - 27/07/2012 01:56:35 PM 858 Views
It's a good question, but yes, I do. nossy - 27/07/2012 02:42:28 PM 898 Views
Are going to ban everyone and everyone country who says something about anyone else? random thoughts - 27/07/2012 04:47:51 PM 808 Views
Yes, that is clearly exactly what I said. nossy - 27/07/2012 05:10:37 PM 853 Views
i have a feeling you are being influenced by that pic they run with all the articles about her? moondog - 27/07/2012 02:14:13 PM 865 Views
Surely you don't think... Isaac - 27/07/2012 02:57:47 PM 772 Views
Heh. Rebekah - 27/07/2012 05:53:07 PM 1025 Views
Typo? There are limits to our credulity... or to mine, anyway. Legolas - 27/07/2012 06:27:44 PM 878 Views
I can honestly say I would not care as much if she were a man and/or ugly Tom - 29/07/2012 03:29:47 AM 970 Views
Looks like Voula Papachristou agrees with Tom Dark Knight - 27/07/2012 07:09:30 PM 896 Views
Quite understandable. But so's the Greek OC's decision. Legolas - 27/07/2012 07:11:31 PM 909 Views
And now a Swiss footabller has gone as well snoopcester - 30/07/2012 08:22:45 PM 908 Views
That's just poor sportsmanship. *NM* Tom - 30/07/2012 08:53:53 PM 566 Views
And now the next incident... this time about an athlete's partner, not the athlete herself. Legolas - 03/08/2012 09:47:27 PM 968 Views
And an Australian athlete has been sent home now snoopcester - 04/08/2012 10:12:12 AM 734 Views
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