It was not a strip IF possession was simultaneous, obviously (because Tate always had possession, so there was no need for a strip.) However, even IF Jennings had indisputable sole possession, THEN we would be forced to consider whether he was ever down before Tate got the ball away, and I am not sure he was.
Between the two it is impossible to call that an unambiguous interception, and we are also speaking with the benefit of slow-mo replays the refs on the field did not have. In their place, based on what I saw in real time on the field, I would have made the same call, and this is one of those cases where a call—ANY call, be it Int or TD—is impossible to overturn once made, because no replay provides the necessary incontrovertible evidence. Many people (and I am not saying you are among them) have the mistaken idea bad calls do not matter as much now because they can be fixed on replay, but since replay reversal requires incontrovertible evidence, that is simply not the case.
once again, tate never had full possession of the ball. there is one angle where you can see him change his grip as they are falling together. there is no way it is a simultaneous catch.
Changing his grip does not prove he NEVER had full possession. For one thing, full possession is possible with one hand, and for another he could have previously and/or subsequently had full possession with either hand or both (which is the problem with using stills for a play like that.)
but IF it was a strip, then jennings has possession the whole way. even in the pic posted above, jennings CLEARLY has possession of the ball on the ground AS THE REFS ARE LOOKING AT HIM. how you could possibly call that for the seahawks is beyond my understanding of football.
In the pics above, no part of Jennings' body except his feet can ever be seen on the ground rather than on Tate, and players are only down by contact when any part of their body except their feet or hands touch the ground. Thus the pics do not show Jennings down at any point, and play should have continued, allowing Tate to strip the ball and GAIN possession even IF (and I cannot stress that "if" enough) he did not already have it (for which a strong case can be and has been made.)
also, both refs made opposing calls but never conferred with each other. the head ref never conferred with either ref on the spot. the only conference was between the head ref and the upstairs official, and we all know how that turned out. again, everyone but you, cannoli, tate and pete carroll knows the call was incorrect.
I hardly think that an exhaustive list of people who think the call correct, and saying, "everyone except those who disagree with me agrees with me," says nothing. That the head ref never conferred with either ref on the scene yet conferred with the upstairs ref on whether the play resulted in a TD makes clear which ruling he thought correct on the scene.
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This message last edited by Joel on 26/09/2012 at 05:00:44 AM
/NFL: now that replacement refs have cost the packers a win, can we please get the real ones back? *NM*
25/09/2012 05:14:58 AM
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Link? Clip?
25/09/2012 05:27:07 AM
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Let's just say that Gruden used the word "Jobbed" in the live telecast. *NM*
25/09/2012 05:35:08 AM
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Here's a link.
25/09/2012 05:36:56 AM
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Yes and no; that is the link I referenced in my post.
25/09/2012 05:47:07 AM
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youtube link
25/09/2012 07:00:29 AM
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Thanks; that looks like a textbook case of simultaneous possession, which goes to the receiver: TD.
25/09/2012 07:29:28 AM
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pete carroll is a cheating douchebag, you cannot take his word for what happened
25/09/2012 10:59:33 AM
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I did not; I watched the clip: Simultaneous possession, which goes to the receiver.
26/09/2012 01:30:18 AM
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watch a better replay if you can
26/09/2012 02:38:17 AM
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Have now; still not convinced.
26/09/2012 04:01:23 AM
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also, the pass interference on tate that wasn't called is clear at 0:56 in that clip
25/09/2012 11:27:36 AM
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Tate was looking for the ball, and raised his hands to catch it, not push off Sam Shields.
26/09/2012 01:33:46 AM
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watch a better replay and get back to me on this one.
26/09/2012 02:36:43 AM
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Where did the NFL head office acknowledge that?
26/09/2012 03:52:36 AM
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in their official response to the whole incident....?
26/09/2012 04:14:52 AM
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Fair enough then; the NFLs official position is that offensive PI should have been called.
26/09/2012 04:45:58 AM
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Yeah, if one hand counts as possession
25/09/2012 05:15:37 PM
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Left hand between Jennings' arms and on the ball; right was outside Jennings' arm and on the ball.
26/09/2012 01:38:28 AM
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How have you not seen this play? Are you in a cave? *NM*
25/09/2012 03:57:55 PM
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No, I am in Norway, where NFL coverage is rather limited.
26/09/2012 01:40:07 AM
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While you can hardly blame the replacement refs because they are basically trainees...
25/09/2012 06:05:22 AM
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Now I really want to see this play.
25/09/2012 06:27:42 AM
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Re: Now I really want to see this play.
25/09/2012 02:48:56 PM
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I have still only seen the YouTube clip, but it looked like they both had both hands on the ball.
26/09/2012 01:58:27 AM
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You might appreciate learning that the Lingerie Football League fired some of these refs
25/09/2012 07:19:37 AM
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Tie goes to the receiver - the rule for decades. The Packers benefitted from worse calls last year
25/09/2012 11:31:47 AM
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you probably think greedo shot first too.....
25/09/2012 01:49:03 PM
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Possession doesn't mean squat until you land. Tate had it by then
25/09/2012 03:13:29 PM
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he had nothing until they landed and he tried to pull it away. everyone but you agrees on this *NM*
25/09/2012 03:25:43 PM
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Not so; Cannoli and I agree on pretty much every point involved in this play.
26/09/2012 02:17:01 AM
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They can't reverse that call.
25/09/2012 04:43:28 PM
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the only possible way was to rule it incomplete
25/09/2012 10:42:25 PM
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It was very obviously caught; you can't rule that incomplete.
25/09/2012 11:06:17 PM
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my philosophy is "interception = incomplete" but i think that's only for stats purposes
26/09/2012 12:32:43 AM
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Congrats Cannoli, you are the only person (thing?) in the country who thinks it's a TD *NM*
25/09/2012 03:53:18 PM
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I'm not even the only person in this thread, moron. *NM*
25/09/2012 04:07:48 PM
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Joel hasn't even seen the play, douchebag *NM*
25/09/2012 04:12:35 PM
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I have seen enough of it, and while I did not write Cannolis response, I easily could have.
26/09/2012 02:06:45 AM
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Slightly (very) loopy yet entertaining piece on why Ayn Rand is to blame for all of this.
25/09/2012 05:38:12 PM
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She hates revenue sharing, salary caps & the draft, too, but the Pack would be screwed without each.
26/09/2012 03:34:00 AM
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Here's the proof Cannoli is refusing to see
25/09/2012 05:54:07 PM
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Clearer shot, but stills do not allow us to see where Tates hands were at all times.
26/09/2012 02:10:25 AM
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you can't claim "good ol' strip" *AND* simultaneous catch -- which is it?
26/09/2012 02:35:41 AM
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I do not claim both: I claim simultaneous catch but IF not, then strip.
26/09/2012 03:51:47 AM
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you sure you saw the right replay?
26/09/2012 04:21:57 AM
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Think so, yeah.
26/09/2012 04:58:15 AM
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from another angle -- pun intended
26/09/2012 04:01:54 PM
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There are two separate issues: 1) Was it a simultaneous catch; 2) IF not, was it a strip?
27/09/2012 08:54:52 AM
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your opinion is against pretty much everyone in the world, so..... *shrug*
27/09/2012 03:55:33 PM
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Thanks; I did not expect you to give in so easily.
27/09/2012 10:14:30 PM
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did you even read that article???
28/09/2012 12:35:39 AM
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"his control wasn’t established again...."
28/09/2012 01:08:03 AM
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wow, what a thorough analysis you sent me
either way, you're still wrong
28/09/2012 02:05:24 AM
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Worst calls are made all the time by the regular officials.
26/09/2012 01:23:57 AM
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yes, but not usually more than one per game, certainly not several in a single weekend.... *NM*
26/09/2012 02:39:56 AM
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