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Like you said: By referring to "all invididuals" (or, better, "persons" or "citizens.") Joel Send a noteboard - 24/10/2012 04:14:55 PM
That covers a lot of ground, and I tried to avoid going there after getting into it a while back over equal opportunity housing and related laws. The bottom line is that we cannot, or should not, ban bigotry itself. Free democratic societies tend to gradually reduce bigotry by ostracizing bigots (which is not "bigotry against bigots" because it rejects behavior, not people.) What we cannot do is let the majority dictate what everyone believes or how they choose to dispose of their own property. Unfortunately, that means businesses ought to be able to post "Irish need not apply" signs if willing to deal with the loss of trade such practices provoke.


I'll bite. How should the Civil Rights Act have been written in order to reverse stagnant attitudes about racial employment when it came to African-Americans such that the law read in a way that could still be universalized -- without referring to a grouping phrase like "on the basis of race"? If you referred instead to "all individuals" or "no individuals," it seems to me you'd be invariably crossing the line where employers can't hire or fire anyone at all for reasons other than direct qualifications. That might work for a very generic business, but any business going for a certain image or flavor would have a tough time of it. Law firms would have to hire people who refuse to wear suits, for instance, just because those people may be well qualified at law.

(Of course, maybe I am just an old fuddy-duddy in my own way.)

Everyone is an old fuddy-duddy in their own way; that is the REAL crux of all discrimination. So, yes, the employment standard should be ability to best do the job: What other standard is non-discriminatory? How many people resent what we did instead, not because they are bigots, but because they do not want to lose their livelihood to someone with no qualifications but the "right" color, gender, etc? Professional attire for professional duties falls within job qualifications, but basing employment on anything that does not is discrimination on its face.

Also, and once again, I am not sure any of that should have the force of law for private businesses, whose owners should be free to be as bigoted as they like as long as they commit/incite no violence. That will have inevitably dire commercial consequences, but should not have legal ones.
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This message last edited by Joel on 24/10/2012 at 04:39:11 PM
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Legal rights. - 20/10/2012 12:14:10 AM 719 Views
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That is what I'm saying it. - 20/10/2012 01:07:50 AM 673 Views
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+1 *NM* - 20/10/2012 01:51:25 AM 394 Views
+2 *NM* - 20/10/2012 11:18:39 AM 350 Views
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poly people? - 20/10/2012 12:44:01 PM 645 Views
Government needs to stop legislating morality. So yes *NM* - 20/10/2012 03:36:37 AM 343 Views
That's a huge chunk of what government does. - 20/10/2012 04:35:45 PM 649 Views
That's not what I'm saying - 21/10/2012 03:21:08 AM 668 Views
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Why do you keep talking about gay marriage and polygamy in the same sentence.. - 20/10/2012 03:58:26 AM 694 Views
Get a grip. Your response is just what I tried to avoid. - 20/10/2012 04:33:40 AM 610 Views
The more fool you. - 21/10/2012 05:55:30 AM 706 Views
Ha! Point. *NM* - 20/10/2012 05:40:34 AM 534 Views
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I got no opinion on it. - 20/10/2012 12:51:43 PM 731 Views
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The state shouldn't even recognize marriage beyond name changes anyway - 21/10/2012 03:52:40 AM 681 Views
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I don't give a damn what you call it. That's your business. - 21/10/2012 06:17:40 AM 1001 Views
And so? - 21/10/2012 07:05:08 AM 646 Views
Re: And so? - 21/10/2012 04:10:19 PM 811 Views
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You are correct, yet your reasoning is flawed. - 23/10/2012 03:20:25 PM 623 Views
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Much less force, yes. - 23/10/2012 04:15:03 PM 556 Views
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Re: The crux is "If it's my business, it's my business." - 23/10/2012 07:15:17 PM 578 Views
Like you said: By referring to "all invididuals" (or, better, "persons" or "citizens.") - 24/10/2012 04:14:55 PM 604 Views
But we know very well that it doesn't have dire commercial consequences. - 25/10/2012 07:17:55 PM 657 Views
Depends on where you look, and for how long. - 26/10/2012 01:19:00 AM 611 Views
+1 *NM* - 23/10/2012 07:36:46 PM 285 Views
No the analogy is not exact, nor legally the same... - 23/10/2012 07:33:25 PM 523 Views
Analogy is not equality, only similarity. - 24/10/2012 04:37:29 PM 724 Views
We aren't asking for something better or different. - 23/10/2012 04:27:04 PM 618 Views
yeah, it is very circular. - 23/10/2012 07:44:33 PM 647 Views

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