There's a lot of misinformation flying around here.
Werthead Send a noteboard - 29/09/2009 11:22:29 PM
Answers to some of the incorrect information flying around this thread:
1. He didn't know she was 13.
Yes, he did. Polanski asked the girl's mother if he could shoot pictures of her for Vogue. There were two photo sessions (the attack took place at the second one). Polanski did not randomly bump into her. He knew her and her family, met her mother on several occasions, gained her legal consent for the photo shoot (which would involve full disclosure of her age) and he well knew how old she was.
EDIT: Thanks to Legolas's link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-477609/The-dark-secrets-Roman-Polanksi.html
We also know that the Vogue photo-shoot was specifically going to be of young girls in the victim's age range.
2. He was never proven guilty.
Yes, he was. He did not flee the United States before the trial, he fled it after admitting his guilt.
3. It wasn't rape.
Yes, it was. Sex with a minor does not use the word 'rape' in its title, but since a minor cannot give legal consent to sexual intercourse, it is rape. The difference is a legally semantic one.
In addition, whilst Polanski's legal team has only ever focused on sentencing regarding the charge he admitted guilt to, the Los Angeles County Court has ruled that ALL of the original charges, including the drugging and indeed the possible use of the 'statutory rape' charge could be back on the table should he return to the United States:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/movies/06polanski.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&sq=polanski%20dalton&st=cse&scp=4
4. He's hasn't repeated the offence again in the past 32 years.
Yes, he has. He began a relationship with actress Nastassja Kinski when she was 15 years old. This is (just) the legal age of consent in France, but is not the age of consent in the USA or UK. His prediliction for young girls remained intact after the incident, showing that the experience did not rehabilitate him.
EDIT: Thanks to Legolas, I realised this incident happened in 1976, a year before the original case took place. There is no evidence that Polanski has re-offended on this score since the original incident, merely that when it took place it was not the first time it happened.
5. The victim doesn't want the matter pursued.
The victim did want the matter pursued quite vigorously until she settled a civil case with Polanski a few years ago where she was paid money to drop the matter. Now she wants the matter dropped which, whilst a point certainly worth invoking, is ultimately overriden by Polanski's flight from justice and also the debt he owes to society. Part of the punishment for a crime is ensuring that others are inspired not to commit the same crime. The high profile nature of this case has given rise to the belief that it is possible to commit a crime in the United States and then flee to France where you will not be extradited back to the USA. Also, given that the overwhelming majority of rape cases are still not reported, showing that the perpetrator of such a crime can still be brought to justice 30 years on is a powerful display of the law working as intended.
In short, the victim doesn't want the matter pursued as she has been paid off. Good for her, but that isn't the only issue involved here.
Clarification: The victim began civil proceedings against Polanski through the French court system in 1990. She pursued the case for seven years until they reached an out-of-court settlement in 1997, where she was given $140,000 (source: Legolas' link to the Daily Mail story). Immediately after the settlement was reached, she publicly forgave Polanski, whilst still maintaining he had 'drugged and raped her as a starstruck kid'. It is possible that this declaration was part of the terms of the settlement, although this is not confirmed.
6. The judge was planning to shaft him.
Possibly true. In fact, the judge was later taken off the case because of concerns over his competence. However, there are many legal recourses that could have been taken against the judge if he indeed reneged on the plea bargain. Since thousands of cases in California alone are dependant on plea-bargaining being permitted to get any kind of verdict, dishonouring one would have been a horrendous precedent to set. It is also unclear if the judge actually was going to do this, or was blowing off steam in a private conversation after being shown pictures of Polanski partying in Europe before sentencing.
I think that about covers it: he knew how old she was, he admitted that he did it, it was not the first time he had done it and the original victim was paid off not to pursue the matter any further, which has zero bearing on the legal side of things.
1. He didn't know she was 13.
Yes, he did. Polanski asked the girl's mother if he could shoot pictures of her for Vogue. There were two photo sessions (the attack took place at the second one). Polanski did not randomly bump into her. He knew her and her family, met her mother on several occasions, gained her legal consent for the photo shoot (which would involve full disclosure of her age) and he well knew how old she was.
EDIT: Thanks to Legolas's link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-477609/The-dark-secrets-Roman-Polanksi.html
We also know that the Vogue photo-shoot was specifically going to be of young girls in the victim's age range.
2. He was never proven guilty.
Yes, he was. He did not flee the United States before the trial, he fled it after admitting his guilt.
3. It wasn't rape.
Yes, it was. Sex with a minor does not use the word 'rape' in its title, but since a minor cannot give legal consent to sexual intercourse, it is rape. The difference is a legally semantic one.
In addition, whilst Polanski's legal team has only ever focused on sentencing regarding the charge he admitted guilt to, the Los Angeles County Court has ruled that ALL of the original charges, including the drugging and indeed the possible use of the 'statutory rape' charge could be back on the table should he return to the United States:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/movies/06polanski.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&sq=polanski%20dalton&st=cse&scp=4
4. He's hasn't repeated the offence again in the past 32 years.
Yes, he has. He began a relationship with actress Nastassja Kinski when she was 15 years old. This is (just) the legal age of consent in France, but is not the age of consent in the USA or UK. His prediliction for young girls remained intact after the incident, showing that the experience did not rehabilitate him.
EDIT: Thanks to Legolas, I realised this incident happened in 1976, a year before the original case took place. There is no evidence that Polanski has re-offended on this score since the original incident, merely that when it took place it was not the first time it happened.
5. The victim doesn't want the matter pursued.
The victim did want the matter pursued quite vigorously until she settled a civil case with Polanski a few years ago where she was paid money to drop the matter. Now she wants the matter dropped which, whilst a point certainly worth invoking, is ultimately overriden by Polanski's flight from justice and also the debt he owes to society. Part of the punishment for a crime is ensuring that others are inspired not to commit the same crime. The high profile nature of this case has given rise to the belief that it is possible to commit a crime in the United States and then flee to France where you will not be extradited back to the USA. Also, given that the overwhelming majority of rape cases are still not reported, showing that the perpetrator of such a crime can still be brought to justice 30 years on is a powerful display of the law working as intended.
In short, the victim doesn't want the matter pursued as she has been paid off. Good for her, but that isn't the only issue involved here.
Clarification: The victim began civil proceedings against Polanski through the French court system in 1990. She pursued the case for seven years until they reached an out-of-court settlement in 1997, where she was given $140,000 (source: Legolas' link to the Daily Mail story). Immediately after the settlement was reached, she publicly forgave Polanski, whilst still maintaining he had 'drugged and raped her as a starstruck kid'. It is possible that this declaration was part of the terms of the settlement, although this is not confirmed.
6. The judge was planning to shaft him.
Possibly true. In fact, the judge was later taken off the case because of concerns over his competence. However, there are many legal recourses that could have been taken against the judge if he indeed reneged on the plea bargain. Since thousands of cases in California alone are dependant on plea-bargaining being permitted to get any kind of verdict, dishonouring one would have been a horrendous precedent to set. It is also unclear if the judge actually was going to do this, or was blowing off steam in a private conversation after being shown pictures of Polanski partying in Europe before sentencing.
I think that about covers it: he knew how old she was, he admitted that he did it, it was not the first time he had done it and the original victim was paid off not to pursue the matter any further, which has zero bearing on the legal side of things.
This message last edited by Werthead on 30/09/2009 at 04:14:52 PM
/History/Politics/I'm not sure: A commentary on the Roman Polanski arrest
- 29/09/2009 10:15:12 AM
1358 Views
There's some seriously twisted logic in this
- 29/09/2009 11:53:41 AM
550 Views
Re: There's some seriously twisted logic in this
- 29/09/2009 11:57:18 AM
649 Views
Re: There's some seriously twisted logic in this
- 29/09/2009 12:09:27 PM
406 Views
Re: There's some seriously twisted logic in this
- 29/09/2009 12:15:54 PM
513 Views
For thousands of years 13yos have been having sex with much older males.
- 29/09/2009 02:46:27 PM
469 Views
Lots of things have been going on for thousands of years.
- 29/09/2009 03:35:06 PM
417 Views
Well on the flip side
- 29/09/2009 03:49:35 PM
519 Views
if you were talking "consensual", i'd probably at least grudgingly agree
- 29/09/2009 04:07:08 PM
519 Views
Problem is that we don't know
- 29/09/2009 04:46:15 PM
514 Views
he said/she said/lawyer said
- 29/09/2009 05:01:41 PM
567 Views
Yep
- 29/09/2009 05:28:16 PM
542 Views
I was not under the impression he did not know she was a minor
- 29/09/2009 05:50:38 PM
542 Views
Well, Angelica Huston (who was there that night) didn't think she looked 'like a minor'
- 29/09/2009 06:17:15 PM
568 Views
It was a photo shoot for a film why WOULD she look like a minor??
- 29/09/2009 06:27:00 PM
569 Views
Sorry - no it wasn't for a film at all
- 29/09/2009 06:39:14 PM
466 Views
I believe at some point it wasn mentioned to be connected to a film
- 29/09/2009 06:42:25 PM
352 Views
I've never seen anything to support that
- 29/09/2009 07:01:56 PM
375 Views
even if the paperwork didn't show it
- 29/09/2009 07:06:02 PM
556 Views
Possibly
- 29/09/2009 07:35:33 PM
553 Views
and i'm saying that if it was under contest
- 29/09/2009 07:38:24 PM
514 Views
here is a photo of her taken that same year.
- 29/09/2009 08:10:21 PM
579 Views
Seen that one as part of my research on this
- 29/09/2009 08:22:33 PM
589 Views
I think it very telling that you want to take this line of when Polanski doesn't
- 29/09/2009 08:36:47 PM
445 Views
Really? Who says?
- 29/09/2009 08:42:38 PM
497 Views
I can't prove it wasn't aliens using mind control rays that forced him to do it
- 29/09/2009 08:57:10 PM
408 Views
There is one thing I would like to say.
- 29/09/2009 09:03:06 PM
405 Views
Absolutely unacceptable behavior for an administrator, Avendesora.
- 30/09/2009 10:44:32 PM
494 Views
actually, it was an honest mistake. I accidentally clicked on "edit" instead of "reply".
- 01/10/2009 06:25:48 PM
366 Views
he could have had a trial and chose not to
- 29/09/2009 05:41:11 PM
529 Views
Yes, he could have
- 29/09/2009 05:56:05 PM
484 Views
so he fled the country to spare her the humilation of a trial?
- 29/09/2009 08:11:59 PM
512 Views
Nope
- 29/09/2009 08:28:58 PM
375 Views
no it isn't but you seem to have trouble understanding he drugged and rapped a child
- 30/09/2009 09:24:53 PM
556 Views
You seem to have trouble understanding that an accusation isn't proof
- 30/09/2009 11:04:35 PM
532 Views
The coward fled the country before anything could be proven
- 01/10/2009 06:25:27 AM
520 Views
You really don't get it do you?
- 01/10/2009 04:20:36 PM
326 Views
I don't get it??????
- 01/10/2009 05:22:51 PM
398 Views
Yeah - you don't and it's a good thing you're not part of the legal system
- 01/10/2009 05:32:57 PM
488 Views
For thousands of years gays have been persecuted and treated as abhorrent perverts.
- 02/10/2009 02:57:47 AM
532 Views
And a big fuck you to you too.
- 05/10/2009 03:08:09 PM
355 Views
He's just a troll, as he's shown in many threads. *NM*
- 05/10/2009 03:19:14 PM
271 Views
Yes, it's not like I have a valid point or anything.
*NM*
- 05/10/2009 07:16:13 PM
289 Views
*NM*
- 05/10/2009 07:16:13 PM
289 Views
Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't.
- 05/10/2009 07:46:18 PM
361 Views
Well, I guess you'll have to fulfill your role here and pass sentence...
- 06/10/2009 09:19:34 PM
527 Views
Oh, I'm sorry. It's not ok to point out the hypocritical holes in your argument? My bad.
- 05/10/2009 07:15:33 PM
357 Views
I've been following this with some interest
- 29/09/2009 03:28:36 PM
376 Views
That was my impression as well.
- 29/09/2009 03:38:48 PM
354 Views
I agree with many of your points, but on some the facts seem to say something else.
- 29/09/2009 04:13:09 PM
550 Views
Problem of course is that those are not 'facts'
- 29/09/2009 04:58:28 PM
538 Views
first you demand fact before judgement then you make a judgement on your opinion?
- 29/09/2009 05:04:59 PM
483 Views
because she doesn't have any excuse to belly up either
- 29/09/2009 04:17:06 PM
524 Views
Re: because she doesn't have any excuse to belly up either
- 29/09/2009 05:17:57 PM
447 Views
*snort*
- 29/09/2009 05:30:25 PM
461 Views
I would have to agree with you there, actually
- 29/09/2009 05:47:13 PM
594 Views
Re: I would have to agree with your first point, but not the second
- 29/09/2009 05:47:40 PM
567 Views
There is no way in hell he did not know she was underage.
- 29/09/2009 05:55:37 PM
511 Views
Not necessarily true at all
- 29/09/2009 06:32:18 PM
459 Views
Somehow, i heavily doubt the fact she was NOT 18 would never have come to light
- 29/09/2009 06:40:20 PM
520 Views
You may be right, I don't know.
- 29/09/2009 06:58:45 PM
537 Views
so you agree he is guilty to the allegation he pleaded guilty to of sex with a minor?
- 29/09/2009 07:09:07 PM
444 Views
There was never any doubt of that
- 29/09/2009 07:46:43 PM
423 Views
Yeah, I agree about the vigilante part and the extreme reactions...
- 29/09/2009 07:58:18 PM
555 Views
I think I'm reading that article more critically than you are.
- 29/09/2009 08:37:23 PM
498 Views
Or you've already made up your mind, while I'm basing mine on what I read.
- 29/09/2009 08:46:56 PM
577 Views
An article that has a lot of additional detail...
- 29/09/2009 07:18:29 PM
562 Views
I wish i could put a nice big star next to this.
- 29/09/2009 07:29:38 PM
455 Views
Umm - why?
- 29/09/2009 08:04:29 PM
504 Views
Yes, well, online newspaper archives don't tend to date back very far...
- 29/09/2009 08:14:52 PM
537 Views
Oh, and if you want to read the op-ed she wrote...
- 29/09/2009 08:20:06 PM
478 Views
Camilla - he drugged and raped a 13-year old.....what else do you need to know?
*NM*
- 29/09/2009 06:19:19 PM
299 Views
*NM*
- 29/09/2009 06:19:19 PM
299 Views
I don't know that. Neither do you. Which is part of it. *NM*
- 29/09/2009 06:20:22 PM
295 Views
Yes we do.....
- 29/09/2009 06:30:46 PM
507 Views
No, we don't.
- 29/09/2009 06:48:35 PM
460 Views
if these "Facts" were false
- 29/09/2009 07:02:50 PM
482 Views
That's extremely naive
- 29/09/2009 08:07:15 PM
376 Views
i fail to see how this is naive
- 29/09/2009 08:35:59 PM
535 Views
The naive part
- 29/09/2009 08:49:18 PM
532 Views
I'm not assuming anyone (not just her personal testimony) was telling the truth
- 29/09/2009 08:56:52 PM
558 Views
I think that I'm just more cynical than you are
- 29/09/2009 09:12:12 PM
504 Views
So because i'm not cynical about the court system and have a different train of logic
- 29/09/2009 09:25:53 PM
521 Views
Not necessarily wrong
- 29/09/2009 09:43:33 PM
496 Views
Uhm, his bargain wasn't 40-odd days in evaulation
- 29/09/2009 09:51:22 PM
331 Views
Not what I read, but this whole thing is so messy...
- 29/09/2009 10:25:59 PM
422 Views
I don't remember which article it was from
- 29/09/2009 10:32:32 PM
302 Views
One thing that was clear
- 29/09/2009 11:08:43 PM
539 Views
Ah I didn't catch that
- 29/09/2009 11:15:06 PM
470 Views
Could you source that?
- 29/09/2009 11:18:46 PM
517 Views
it's one of the articles that's been linked
- 29/09/2009 11:59:02 PM
459 Views
CNN has it the way I described, but I don't know how good their info is. *NM*
- 30/09/2009 11:05:45 PM
150 Views
Yes, we do.....drugs & rape of a 13-year old
- 29/09/2009 07:10:02 PM
474 Views
you do know that just because you repeat something it doesn't instantly become true? *NM*
- 29/09/2009 07:11:03 PM
147 Views
Wow - I guess every allegation ever made by a prosecutor is true
- 29/09/2009 08:09:43 PM
380 Views
I guess you believe every criminal who says "I didn't do it".....
- 29/09/2009 08:18:29 PM
452 Views
Nope
- 29/09/2009 09:14:02 PM
363 Views
He admitted it.
- 29/09/2009 10:45:43 PM
516 Views
You don't get it do you?
- 29/09/2009 11:15:27 PM
478 Views
Seriously, are you related to Roman the Rapist?
- 30/09/2009 01:11:44 AM
478 Views
I want to go on record as saying: I really dislike agreeing with you
- 30/09/2009 05:03:24 AM
551 Views
- 30/09/2009 05:03:24 AM
551 Views
Oh, now Amy's accusing me of being a pedophile, that's just funny
- 01/10/2009 12:23:53 AM
467 Views
Re: Oh, now Amy's accusing me of being a pedophile, that's just funny
- 01/10/2009 05:55:46 AM
515 Views
Honestly Amy, you know nothing whatsoever about my life or why I do things
- 01/10/2009 04:03:38 PM
489 Views
I think you're getting way out of line here, Amy. *NM*
- 01/10/2009 04:07:59 PM
275 Views
I agree, and already said the same once. It appears that was deleted. *NM*
- 01/10/2009 05:15:07 PM
308 Views
I think for the 1st time ever i'm actually stunned by the comments on this board.
- 29/09/2009 07:14:18 PM
420 Views
Oh but he didn't KNOW
- 29/09/2009 07:17:55 PM
389 Views
Ignorance doesn't have to be proven in court
- 29/09/2009 08:11:31 PM
334 Views
no you have back asswards
- 29/09/2009 08:14:36 PM
380 Views
You're talking ethics and then switch to law
- 29/09/2009 09:17:02 PM
350 Views
yes the law can be stupid but not so stupid that you can use the
- 29/09/2009 10:32:49 PM
380 Views
Oh it's EASILY that stupid and even stupider
- 29/09/2009 10:58:33 PM
515 Views
If the girl has to call and ask her mommy if she can stay late you should ask her age
- 30/09/2009 04:04:33 PM
356 Views
He knew her age. The photo-shoot was specifically looking at young girls.
- 30/09/2009 04:42:01 PM
472 Views
I think he's ignoring such trivial details as "that was the specific age being photographed" *NM*
- 30/09/2009 04:56:10 PM
274 Views
Of course he knew he age
- 30/09/2009 05:01:19 PM
472 Views
Obviously - because you say so right?
- 30/09/2009 11:25:18 PM
322 Views
Wow, way to make up 'facts'
- 30/09/2009 11:23:13 PM
552 Views
Way to go for a straw man
- 29/09/2009 07:45:44 PM
520 Views
No one has excused him. But there is no point any longer in going after him.
- 29/09/2009 08:15:42 PM
606 Views
Agreed - I can't believe people are defending this d-bag.....amazing!
*NM*
- 29/09/2009 08:25:05 PM
280 Views
*NM*
- 29/09/2009 08:25:05 PM
280 Views
well
- 29/09/2009 08:34:56 PM
485 Views
I'm all for the gray and considerin both sides.
- 29/09/2009 08:45:50 PM
391 Views
Ben Franklin once said
- 29/09/2009 09:30:16 PM
538 Views
*snort*
- 29/09/2009 10:02:13 PM
505 Views
I'd say you need to spend more time around lawyers
- 29/09/2009 10:40:05 PM
443 Views
Exactly Nossy
- 29/09/2009 09:20:14 PM
578 Views
I've decided I really don't care about this either way at all.
- 29/09/2009 08:38:14 PM
434 Views
It has an effect on good cinema *NM*
- 29/09/2009 08:52:58 PM
196 Views
There's a lot of misinformation flying around here.
- 29/09/2009 11:22:29 PM
531 Views
That would be more convincing if you didn't have incorrect information yourself.
- 29/09/2009 11:58:40 PM
345 Views
- 29/09/2009 11:58:40 PM
345 Views
I just worked that out.
- 30/09/2009 12:07:43 AM
520 Views
Re: I just worked that out.
- 30/09/2009 12:28:13 AM
485 Views
In my opinion...
- 30/09/2009 04:57:44 PM
460 Views
Can I just say...
- 30/09/2009 05:54:47 PM
483 Views
The state is also a vicitm
- 30/09/2009 06:17:22 PM
473 Views
Hardly, in this case
- 30/09/2009 11:57:48 PM
360 Views
He drugged and raped her.....please feel free to pass this along.....
*NM*
- 01/10/2009 12:23:49 AM
299 Views
*NM*
- 01/10/2009 12:23:49 AM
299 Views
you know your arguments would have more merit if you had a clue what your were talking about
- 01/10/2009 06:24:35 AM
332 Views
You should know what you are talking about before you post
- 01/10/2009 04:18:50 PM
537 Views
OK go learn something and then come back
- 01/10/2009 05:15:45 PM
511 Views
I note that you ignore the fact that I just proved you wrong...
- 01/10/2009 05:27:01 PM
447 Views
no you just mistated some crap that I ignored *sigh*
- 01/10/2009 06:30:03 PM
335 Views
Well - there's another accusation of pedophilia for being skeptical of a borked law case
- 01/10/2009 06:52:08 PM
326 Views
The girl and mother requested to cut a deal, so the 13-year old wouldn't have to testify.....
- 01/10/2009 04:28:49 PM
324 Views
This may help some of the argument, but sadly not much
- 01/10/2009 02:06:22 AM
500 Views
It's not just that he admitted to it in the plea bargain.
- 01/10/2009 03:10:37 AM
537 Views
Well this was the first proof I found that he actually did know her age around the court date
- 01/10/2009 04:16:19 PM
502 Views
Yes, looking at him very strangely.....he's jumping the shark big-time on this one!
- 01/10/2009 04:31:43 PM
357 Views
Good news - French government drops support for director Roman Polanski
- 01/10/2009 04:46:42 PM
493 Views
Not only that, but the DA that said he coached the Judge is now claiming he lied to the documentary
- 01/10/2009 07:26:30 PM
485 Views
Well, unless I find some new facts to post - I think I'm done with this thread
- 01/10/2009 06:59:36 PM
613 Views
Re: Well, unless I find some new facts to post - I think I'm done with this thread
- 01/10/2009 08:41:01 PM
381 Views
I agree the attacks on you personally were not warranted and were out of line.
- 03/10/2009 03:02:03 AM
531 Views

