Active Users:539 Time:01/03/2026 11:09:09 PM
we will have to agree to disagree then moondog Send a noteboard - 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM

if you honestly believe that the only possible recourse for all citizens is to turn on each other in times of crisis, then we are just going to have to agree to disagree about the message the NRA has been pushing, especially over the last couple of years. i can think of no left-wing group in existence in the US who pushes a false, dystopian image of life in American society that the only recourse is to turn on each other and has the legislative clout to make sure it passes through Congress.

the fact that we can sit here, 20 years after the first assault weapons ban, and have the exact same debate about guns in the exact same context should say something to how little we have moved as a society in terms of making things actually safer for everyone.

i have zero problem with responsible gun owners who treat their weapons and fellow citizens with respect. but if we're going to arm everyone, at that point we're telling everyone that laws are only as good as the person shooting the biggest gun, and that is not a society i want to be a part of. with everyone carrying a gun, we devolve into a society in which disputes are settled by whoever draws fastest rather than through a jury of our peers. if this is really what you envision for America's future, then i have nothing more to add to this discussion.

"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
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US Senate Democrats - already cave-in on the gun control bill - 19/03/2013 10:44:55 PM 1483 Views
right wingers are always point out there is no point legislating cosmetics - 19/03/2013 11:52:28 PM 889 Views
Late Term Abortion, Terry Schavio? *NM* - 19/03/2013 11:57:25 PM 442 Views
You know, what you are hoping for will not make any difference whatsoever..... - 20/03/2013 01:07:58 AM 764 Views
"if at first you don't succeed..... fuck it...." - 20/03/2013 04:10:47 AM 762 Views
I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger" - 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM 816 Views
you are correct. i forget sometimes that there **is** some common ground here.... - 20/03/2013 04:19:13 AM 736 Views
There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM 765 Views
Ben Franklin said it best... - 20/03/2013 04:14:45 PM 740 Views
interesting how that quote always applies to so many things, isn't it? - 20/03/2013 05:14:30 PM 740 Views
Absolutely - 21/03/2013 12:20:45 AM 805 Views
if there have to be concessions, what do you recommend? - 20/03/2013 05:10:53 PM 861 Views
That would depend, something of equal value - 20/03/2013 09:13:23 PM 757 Views
when very little is being given up, how do we determine equal value? - 20/03/2013 10:31:59 PM 1019 Views
Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 10:53:22 AM 768 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 07:16:57 PM 833 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 08:53:20 PM 915 Views
some answers - 21/03/2013 10:04:45 PM 1142 Views
Re: some answers - 21/03/2013 11:33:21 PM 928 Views
Re: the NRA - 22/03/2013 07:44:06 PM 762 Views
This is a matter of POV bias - 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM 698 Views
we will have to agree to disagree then - 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM 758 Views
I already knew we disagreed, that's why I suggested bargaining - 22/03/2013 11:11:04 PM 755 Views
i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 12:13:18 AM 695 Views
Re: i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 02:04:39 AM 955 Views
i am not trying to sway, just come to an understanding - 23/03/2013 03:03:14 PM 918 Views
I think you've actually managed to widen our gap - 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM 926 Views
yes, because it was a failed attempt to re-boot and start the debate from the beginning..... - 24/03/2013 03:33:05 AM 1110 Views
I've difficulty seeing the point of going back to first principles but I'm willing to try - 24/03/2013 02:13:29 PM 747 Views
this has been more insightful than our previous tit-for-tat responses, actually - 26/03/2013 07:40:27 PM 731 Views
There's always room for reaosnable dialogue - 26/03/2013 10:09:58 PM 1010 Views
even so, we are at yet another impasse.... - 26/03/2013 11:37:04 PM 829 Views
Probably, I don't know why that surprises you - 27/03/2013 02:02:54 AM 701 Views
I can see the argument for limiting magazine capapcity but it would be hard to enforce - 20/03/2013 05:11:51 PM 750 Views
It would be a stupid meaningless "feel good" law as changing magazines takes almost no time. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:05:34 PM 397 Views
I can't argue that - 21/03/2013 06:14:09 PM 751 Views
canada's magazine restrictions are credited with reducing fatalities in a mass shooting - 21/03/2013 07:22:45 PM 823 Views
what is high capacity? - 21/03/2013 11:09:09 PM 717 Views
according to the law, whatever is larger than the legal limit - 21/03/2013 11:31:08 PM 744 Views
There is no gun control, only gun *centralization* - 20/03/2013 05:32:59 PM 779 Views
Regarding guns sold which are used in crimes - 20/03/2013 10:41:21 PM 742 Views
Your specified legal requirements already exist. *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:05:12 AM 391 Views
So what other stipulations would you put into effect? *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:42:53 AM 377 Views
none- I'd simply actually punish criminals instead of trying to "reform" them. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:13:29 PM 390 Views
Criminals need to be punished AND reformed for their inevitable release back into society *NM* - 21/03/2013 11:58:20 PM 362 Views
I've always been rather partial to the criminal justice system in Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel - 22/03/2013 02:42:09 AM 822 Views
Yeah you're right. Let's just kill everybody who commits a crime - 22/03/2013 02:46:49 AM 757 Views
*NM* - 22/03/2013 10:55:36 AM 402 Views
That's not in Starship Troopers - 22/03/2013 12:51:44 PM 756 Views
Yeah, there was a small number of capital offenses (13 I think), most not specified. - 22/03/2013 05:27:11 PM 736 Views
14 then, he lists stupidity as one in another book - 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM 773 Views
That's why we NEED to reform prisoners - 22/03/2013 10:33:08 PM 709 Views
It is probably an option we should work harder to develop - 23/03/2013 12:38:33 AM 767 Views
Out of curiosity. Is anyone against background checks at gun shows, and if so, why? *NM* - 21/03/2013 09:38:59 AM 376 Views
Not in principle but somewhat in practice - 21/03/2013 11:25:25 AM 910 Views
For what its worth.... - 21/03/2013 03:13:44 PM 717 Views
Personally, I am worried about criminals with guns. BUT... - 22/03/2013 03:44:47 PM 1041 Views
What you are not factoring into your though process is that most criminals feels the same way. - 24/03/2013 12:56:04 PM 1029 Views
I realize that can be the case. But... - 25/03/2013 03:32:59 PM 1009 Views
Twice I was almost robbed, and my parents were robbed several times. - 26/03/2013 01:35:11 PM 647 Views

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