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For what it's worth, I read Lenin & Trotsky as genuine idealists, while Stalin as just a thug Cannoli Send a noteboard - 15/03/2017 11:16:36 AM

I'm not sure which is a worse mindset or motivation, since it doesn't matter worth a damn in the end, but from what I have seen, I tend to think that Ulyanov and Bronstein were actually sincere in their commitment to building a better (in their minds) world, no matter how many eggshells they had to break. They were socialism and progressivism taken to the logical end. Dzhugashvilli, on the other hand, was just a thug gangster who was interested entirely in his own success and aggrandizement. He was much more practical in his application of the same atrocities and tactics, and I can't see him letting procedural and parlimentary tricks marginalize him like the Old Bolsheviks did.

It's kind of an unanswerable question about the worst thing about a totalitarian system: is it the inhumanities people can commit in the name of ideals unrestrained by tradition and respect for human dignity, or is that it allows someone like Stalin to hold power through the apparatus of the state, rather than merely filling in a void as gangsters do in natural societies.

The exasperating thing is that progressives try to act as if the body counts of these guys are an unfortunate side effect, or personality defect of the individuals in question, rather than the eventual outcome of progressivism taken to its logical conclusion, while at the same time demonizing religion and predicting or accusing it of basically aspiring to crimes only progressivism has managed to achieve. A favorite trope of speculative fiction writers is a tyrannical theocracy whereby people are punished for insufficient fervor, where reality and science is ignored in favor of doctrine, and blind zealots ignore the cost of their devout policies. And of course, allowing cynical brutes to carry out their pursuit of power and exercise their violent tendencies by merely using the terminology and aping the practices of the faith. And never in human history has organized religion done any of that on the scale that Stalin, Lenin, Trotsky and Lysinko pulled off.

It's noteworthy that when creating a setting of the ultimate repressive theocracy, the Warhammer 40K writers might have used religious terminology, but had to turn to communism for inspiration in the practical exercise of inhuman tyranny.

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Cannoli on 15/03/2017 at 11:18:49 AM
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The February Revolution and Kerensky’s Missed Opportunity - 13/03/2017 09:37:00 PM 678 Views
Fascinating stuff - 13/03/2017 10:52:58 PM 320 Views
Who knows? It could have been worse off. - 13/03/2017 11:37:54 PM 412 Views
What's your opinion on Lenin? - 14/03/2017 02:06:59 AM 356 Views
Lenin. A monster. - 14/03/2017 12:55:18 PM 385 Views
Thanks. I'll ask him too. *NM* - 14/03/2017 03:01:36 PM 186 Views
Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky were all bloodthirsty mass murderers. - 14/03/2017 08:59:06 PM 409 Views
That's fascinating. But give me a book recommendation! - 14/03/2017 09:15:57 PM 321 Views
Start with a general history of Russia - 14/03/2017 10:17:22 PM 432 Views
Excellent. Thank you. It's next on the list. - 15/03/2017 02:11:14 AM 390 Views
Russian history is as depressing as they come. - 15/03/2017 12:08:15 PM 393 Views
Read Figes first, I suppose. - 14/03/2017 10:55:23 PM 347 Views
Thanks, Tom. I've been putting off reading good literature because of my unfamiliarity with Russia. *NM* - 15/03/2017 02:12:10 AM 177 Views
Which books have you put off reading? *NM* - 15/03/2017 12:05:32 PM 164 Views
DEMONS and THE BROTHERS KARAMAZOV are the big two. - 15/03/2017 02:58:13 PM 330 Views
You don't necessarily need to know the history. - 15/03/2017 03:15:38 PM 367 Views
I'm always afraid I'm missing something critical, though! - 15/03/2017 03:50:59 PM 320 Views
Annotations are amazing. My eBook version of War and Peace was the same. - 15/03/2017 04:03:59 PM 340 Views
My High School English teacher neglected Russian literature. - 16/03/2017 01:46:29 AM 299 Views
Hmmmm. - 16/03/2017 01:18:14 PM 335 Views
Tolstoy was a reprehensible human being - 15/03/2017 04:02:52 PM 321 Views
I had no idea. I was under the impression he was deeply devout. - 16/03/2017 01:47:43 AM 339 Views
Here's one example: - 16/03/2017 02:06:45 AM 333 Views
Good lord. The man sounds deranged. But that's fascinating! Is there a good biography on him? *NM* - 16/03/2017 07:50:10 AM 166 Views
Pavel Basinsky's bio is best - 16/03/2017 02:46:47 PM 486 Views
Getting it now. Thanks. *NM* - 16/03/2017 11:06:25 PM 169 Views
For what it's worth, I read Lenin & Trotsky as genuine idealists, while Stalin as just a thug - 15/03/2017 11:16:36 AM 376 Views
I think that's entirely incorrect. - 15/03/2017 04:00:54 PM 376 Views
I didn't mean stupid or brutish, I meant more like a mafia don than a statesman - 16/03/2017 12:18:34 PM 285 Views
Well if you want to completely redefine the phrase "just a thug", perhaps you're right - 16/03/2017 02:43:38 PM 328 Views
Good point - 16/03/2017 09:52:29 PM 413 Views
I hear what you're saying, but... - 16/03/2017 11:53:19 PM 345 Views
Attempt at clarification - 17/03/2017 12:55:03 AM 407 Views
Hehehe..."Fuck off" - 19/03/2017 05:23:49 PM 349 Views
Seems kind of nonsensical - 14/03/2017 01:33:49 AM 423 Views
Good reply. - 14/03/2017 12:57:47 PM 403 Views
They weren't really wrong - 14/03/2017 01:30:07 PM 428 Views
I do enjoy historical "what if" situations. - 14/03/2017 01:47:27 AM 348 Views
Hi there. - 14/03/2017 01:02:44 PM 307 Views
I still think democracy among those insidiously intrusive Western values Russia resists so fiercely - 14/03/2017 02:37:39 PM 341 Views
Is it your persistant anti-Russia bias that makes you so dogmatic? - 14/03/2017 02:51:23 PM 341 Views
I have no problem with Russia, only its government - 14/03/2017 03:07:14 PM 364 Views
Really? - 14/03/2017 03:15:10 PM 358 Views
What a terrible article - 14/03/2017 08:04:50 PM 311 Views
I thought you would think this way. - 15/03/2017 12:04:57 PM 395 Views
I can't decide what I think about Evans - 15/03/2017 04:10:05 PM 313 Views

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