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Re: There are a lot of reasons Maria Send a noteboard - 20/01/2010 05:01:31 PM
First and foremost, government control of anything is viewed with extreme suspicion in the United States. Government control can (and, in the United States, usually does) lead to attempts by the government to regulate peoples' lives.


How is government-controlled healthcare any different than public schools or a public postal service, which you already have?

Besides, the US spend 16.5% of GDP on healthcare, which is A LOT compared to other contries.

As a result, if we were to have government involved in health care, it would likely lead to yet more penalties for people who smoke, drink, or (based on recent attempts at legislation) drink soft drinks. I personally don't want the government telling me what I can do in the privacy of my own home. America was founded on the concept of "that government is best which governs least".

In the view of Norwegians, that wouldn't be the government dictating what people do in their own home, but the government trying to promote public health. What you choose to do is up to you, but the unhealthy choice costs you a little bit more.

Furthermore, as Legolas said, Europeans seem to think ObamaCare is an attempt to implement government-run socialised medicine in the United States. It is not. Traditionally, one can have two systems for health care:

1. A free market system where doctors, hospitals, insurance companies and the insured all seek maximum benefit at minimum cost

OR

2. A government-run system where all costs are handled through taxation and government fiat.

The United States evolved along the free market path. Theoretically, if we did truly have a "free market" system it would work. Insurance companies would compete with one another to provide better benefits at better rates, hospitals would compete and doctors would compete.

All well and good, if insurance was mandatory. As it is today, the insurance company can deny chronially ill people insurance. Which in my mind is highly unethical.

Unfortunately, runaway malpractice litigation makes doctors have to pay too much in malpractice insurance and legal judgments, and as a result they get squeezed by insurance companies and hospitals. Hospitals are groaning under the rampant use of emergency rooms by illegal immigrants (as emergency rooms cannot refuse anyone who walks in) who then leave and never pay (usually because they can't even be found) and as a result they increase costs for everyone else. Insurance companies refuse coverage to people who will be considered risks to avoid getting squeezed like everyone else.

So...enter ObamaCare. ObamaCare (depending on whether you're looking at the House or Senate versions of the bill) is now saying that people will have to get insurance and may have to pay a fine if they don't have insurance. Does this solve any of the above problems? No. In fact, it makes it likely that insurance will be slightly more expensive because insurers will know people can't just say "no" and walk away. It does (in the House bill only) force insurers to take people even if they have pre-existing conditions (which, as we know, can range from being pregnant to having advanced lung cancer or full-blown AIDS). Is that going to make insurance less expensive? I'll let you decide since the answer's pretty obvious. Both bills try to use the flawed model of Medicare as a basis for future regulation, at a time when Medicare fraud is costing the government billions of dollars. Neither bill addresses the issue of illegals or the skyrocketing cost of medical malpractice. The bill with the "public option" (i.e., government-provided insurance) is actually even worse in many ways because it hurts the insurance companies' ability to negotiate against hospitals for lower costs.

Yes, there are some serious issues with ObamaCare. But there are some serious issues with today's system as well. The truth is, you are pricing the middle class out of healthcare. The insurance fees are galloping at a much faster rate than the increase in income. According to a Princeton economist, given the current development, in ten years time an average american family of four average healthy persons with an average income, over half of their income will be spent on healthcare! Obama has to do something!

At a time when the United States is facing massive unemployment, lingering economic problems and a burgeoning deficit, a bill that forces employers and individuals to pay even more money as the result of a new government program is the sort of thing that would hurt our economy even further.

A budget-neutral reform would be hard, maybe impossible. But by also doing something with the actual health system and not just the funding of it, you could save some money there. (like not sending patients for unnecessary tests, put them on unnecessary treatments, cut back on administration costs, spend some money on cost-effective quality improvement projects etc)
Maria





Little?
Me?
Far from it.
I am just large enough.
Fill myself completely
lengthwise and across
from top to bottom.
Are you larger than yourself maybe?

-Ingrid Hagerup-
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BROWN WINS! Let's celebrate the end of ObamaCare!!! - 20/01/2010 02:20:22 AM 1384 Views
My vote put him over the top!!!! *NM* - 20/01/2010 02:22:50 AM 401 Views
Wait...you only voted once? - 20/01/2010 02:24:42 AM 641 Views
I had planned to post a fake-news joke post earlier. - 20/01/2010 02:27:14 AM 777 Views
The joke is even less funny when written. - 20/01/2010 02:51:18 PM 629 Views
*dances with you* - 20/01/2010 02:24:17 AM 643 Views
Because of Brown or because of dancing with me? *NM* - 20/01/2010 02:25:24 AM 402 Views
Its hard to pick. *NM* - 20/01/2010 02:27:31 AM 341 Views
Don't jinx it - 20/01/2010 02:27:25 AM 758 Views
It's a win-win situation as far as I'm concerned. - 20/01/2010 02:33:16 AM 673 Views
God I love reading the shit at DailyKos right now. - 20/01/2010 02:45:23 AM 732 Views
Actually, there is a chance they can use reconiliation to pass it. I hope not. - 20/01/2010 02:46:47 AM 760 Views
If they did that, they'd be signing their own resignations. - 20/01/2010 02:54:56 AM 679 Views
Probably so but Pelosi did bring it up a few weeks ago. - 20/01/2010 04:05:17 AM 666 Views
Pelosi never thought it would come to this a few weeks ago. - 20/01/2010 04:18:15 AM 685 Views
Re: Pelosi never thought it would come to this a few weeks ago. - 20/01/2010 04:48:32 AM 652 Views
They can, theoretically. - 20/01/2010 12:30:42 PM 650 Views
*does a cartwheel* - 20/01/2010 03:07:00 AM 764 Views
If this isn't a wake up call to the democratic party... - 20/01/2010 03:39:36 AM 688 Views
I guess it depends on the wake up call's message. - 20/01/2010 03:45:38 AM 709 Views
indeed - 20/01/2010 03:51:39 AM 727 Views
Seriously?? - 20/01/2010 03:54:56 AM 776 Views
The Democrats have the arrogance to say "people don't understand the Health Care Bill". - 20/01/2010 03:57:17 AM 722 Views
agreed... *NM* - 20/01/2010 05:14:04 AM 457 Views
That is fucking nuts. *NM* - 20/01/2010 04:06:48 AM 441 Views
Celebrate good times come on! - 20/01/2010 03:53:01 AM 651 Views
I'm in no mood to celebrate - 20/01/2010 04:34:42 AM 809 Views
Re: I'm in no mood to celebrate - 20/01/2010 04:52:16 AM 691 Views
If it'd numb the pain, I'd take it gladly right now! - 20/01/2010 05:47:04 AM 634 Views
Re: If it'd numb the pain, I'd take it gladly right now! - 20/01/2010 06:12:34 AM 777 Views
Do you honestly think this bill would help you? - 20/01/2010 02:21:02 PM 694 Views
just wondering.... - 21/01/2010 01:56:05 AM 702 Views
Well lucky you - 21/01/2010 09:09:16 PM 753 Views
I don't understand this - 20/01/2010 09:07:09 AM 966 Views
Re: I don't understand this - 20/01/2010 12:43:39 PM 810 Views
That would be so massive a reform that it would never ever pass. - 20/01/2010 12:47:23 PM 735 Views
I think "tries" is the key word here. - 20/01/2010 07:44:53 PM 695 Views
Yeah, that's true. *NM* - 20/01/2010 10:05:15 PM 371 Views
I think.... - 20/01/2010 12:52:07 PM 731 Views
There are a lot of reasons - 20/01/2010 02:13:58 PM 688 Views
That was a really good response. *NM* - 20/01/2010 02:54:36 PM 488 Views
Re: There are a lot of reasons - 20/01/2010 03:02:48 PM 731 Views
There is the overtreatment aspect as well, of course. *NM* - 20/01/2010 03:46:45 PM 375 Views
Re: There are a lot of reasons - 20/01/2010 05:01:31 PM 717 Views
Re: There are a lot of reasons - 20/01/2010 11:00:11 PM 900 Views
I think your misunderstanding comes from one concept you mention. - 20/01/2010 04:57:27 PM 773 Views
Re: I don't understand this - 20/01/2010 07:56:02 PM 689 Views
*celebrates the beginning of the downfall of the USA* *NM* - 20/01/2010 12:39:19 PM 368 Views
Want some sugar with those grapes? *NM* - 20/01/2010 12:41:33 PM 360 Views
Beginning? *NM* - 20/01/2010 12:47:51 PM 335 Views
Right...you just keep thinking that... *NM* - 20/01/2010 02:15:41 PM 314 Views
The beginning!? Ha! *NM* - 20/01/2010 07:47:57 PM 325 Views
This is excellent. I am happy. - 20/01/2010 01:50:22 PM 672 Views
I'm not really familiar with Coakley or Brown - 20/01/2010 02:22:51 PM 710 Views
"not the gay things" XD *NM* - 20/01/2010 07:47:00 PM 346 Views
I do hope this doesn't turn Obama into a lame duck. *NM* - 20/01/2010 02:07:34 PM 383 Views
Frankly, I hope it does. *NM* - 20/01/2010 02:15:11 PM 347 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 20/01/2010 10:23:17 PM 340 Views
And then what will happen after that? - 20/01/2010 10:35:46 PM 823 Views
It would mean, effectively, that Congress controls the domestic agenda and Hillary foreign affairs. - 20/01/2010 10:52:24 PM 523 Views
That's kind of ironic... - 20/01/2010 11:15:05 PM 834 Views
And condemn more people to untimely deaths? - 20/01/2010 02:33:08 PM 671 Views
Pity, that there is no government sanctioned murder of the stupid. - 20/01/2010 02:52:52 PM 604 Views
I think the technical term is "dumbicide". - 20/01/2010 03:00:13 PM 715 Views
Don't the Darwin Awards help with that? *NM* - 20/01/2010 03:50:37 PM 364 Views
Oh dear. - 20/01/2010 07:42:18 PM 755 Views
Bah! - 20/01/2010 07:45:48 PM 649 Views
The elderly, eh? Too bad we don't have a program for that. *NM* - 20/01/2010 03:01:40 PM 404 Views
They had their whole lives to save up! F*** 'em. *NM* - 22/01/2010 01:12:20 PM 568 Views
I thought it was time for another such celebration... - 20/01/2010 03:35:28 PM 723 Views
That thud you heard was the lid dropping on the coffin - 20/01/2010 03:49:21 PM 728 Views
True, but it is now finally DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 21/01/2010 01:08:12 AM 711 Views
I keep thinking this thread title says, "BROWNS WIN!" - 21/01/2010 02:21:24 PM 643 Views
Lack of Health Care Reform means American Wage Stagnation - 21/01/2010 06:38:11 PM 829 Views

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