Active Users:195 Time:18/05/2024 10:37:11 PM
You're so full of shit on this issue I don't know where to begin. Tom Send a noteboard - 04/09/2009 03:15:55 AM
That "draconian" system prior to the 1986 Tax Code allowed so many deductions and exemptions that it failed to function. People could deduct sales tax - don't you remember how people saved all their receipts and added that up at the end of the year? Also, you could deduct interest payments on non-mortgages. You could invest money in trusts due to complicated structures. The list goes on and on. I studied the history of the tax code as an intern for the tax professor in law school and am aware of all the twists and turns of the Code from its inception.

If the system had been employed without all of the loopholes that used to exist, the US would have taxed its entrepreneurs out of business. Hell, we officially had a 90% rate during World War II, that started at $200,000 (it had been $1,000,000 prior to the war). However, due to the way that trusts were taxed (or rather, often not taxed) and the massive gaps in the estate and gift tax system, most of the people who qualified paid much less than 90% on that income. In fact, there are still pre-1928 trusts that do not qualify for the estate or gift tax, chugging along happily and not paying taxes - legally.

If you are advocating simply a return to the Clinton rates, it's something that I don't like but I can see that you're at a point where people don't pay more than 50% of their income, when aggregated, in taxes. It is an obscene thought that anyone should ever pay more than 50% total (higher "recapture" rates that eliminate lower brackets but stop working once the money is recaptured are from a policy standpoint defensible, though I loath even that).

Your point about the Beatles simply reinforces a larger macroeconomic truth - America grows economically only to the extent that it provides people an opportunity to prosper. If we lived like Europe, fewer people would come here and our growth would slow. DON'T FORGET THAT 70% OF OUR ECONOMIC GROWTH IS DUE TO CONSUMER SPENDING. That's a disgusting truth, but the point is that without innovators coming here and bringing existing wealth or making new wealth, we will become a second-rate nation. If we have taxes that are lower than Europe's but a comparable living standard and domestic stability, people will continue to come here, bringing talent, wealth and/or ideas with them to keep us growing. If we follow your tax advice, we could see that dry up.

As for tax havens, it doesn't matter for US citizens. We are taxed on worldwide income and all tax havens report that information to the US IRS except Andorra and Monaco, which are coming under MASSIVE pressure and whose activities are scrutinized with a presumption of criminal (tax evasion) intent. AND ANOTHER THING: those Europeans who are "taxed so much" actually can take advantage of tax havens if they're ultra-rich - most European nations don't tax their citizens on income earned in other countries. By keeping income offshore, Europeans avoid their obscenely high tax rates. Once again, Americans can't do that.

Ultimately, I can take comfort in the fact that you aren't making policy in Washington or in a position to affect tax trends generally.

But yes, the Internet shows how everyone has an opinion. Just like they have assholes. You know where this is going - just go take a shower and quit oversimplifying tax policy.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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For Europeans who don't understand why Americans are against ObamaCare - 03/09/2009 04:24:35 AM 1093 Views
I'd be happy to tax top "earners" more and suffer Europes economic "collapse. " - 03/09/2009 04:30:31 AM 564 Views
The US will never work with socialism. - 03/09/2009 04:40:21 AM 655 Views
Re: The US will never work with socialism. - 03/09/2009 04:58:47 AM 650 Views
I don't think the mistrust of the government is really all that overblown - 03/09/2009 05:04:34 AM 565 Views
It's advanced beyond what it was during the Revolution, I think. - 03/09/2009 05:18:22 AM 611 Views
I would say it's grown with the government - 03/09/2009 05:23:52 AM 596 Views
Re: I don't think the mistrust of the government is really all that overblown - 04/09/2009 03:30:23 AM 537 Views
If I lived in France I wouldn't trust the Government either. - 04/09/2009 03:44:55 AM 593 Views
*laughs* the point is taken. *NM* - 04/09/2009 04:24:07 AM 407 Views
Re: The US will never work with socialism. - 04/09/2009 03:28:24 AM 694 Views
How much more can we really tax the wealthy?? - 03/09/2009 04:41:14 AM 498 Views
Sadly, I think going back to the Clinton rates would help - 03/09/2009 04:42:54 AM 485 Views
I'm ok with that....not super excited....but ok with it - 03/09/2009 04:57:32 AM 493 Views
A lot; before Reagans "reforms" we already taxed them less than any other industrialized state did. - 03/09/2009 05:06:00 AM 615 Views
I'm in the lower-middle class tax bracket - 03/09/2009 05:13:39 AM 535 Views
It's both, IMHO. - 03/09/2009 05:29:41 AM 462 Views
I hear a lot of socialism coming from you..... - 03/09/2009 05:19:08 AM 482 Views
Re: I hear a lot of socialism coming from you..... - 03/09/2009 05:40:32 AM 566 Views
Nice non-answer answer..... - 03/09/2009 05:52:04 AM 578 Views
You want detailed answers that require detailed data I don't have. - 03/09/2009 06:06:55 AM 631 Views
Here are some facts and analyses..... - 03/09/2009 02:40:22 PM 653 Views
The Heritage Foundation, huh? - 03/09/2009 03:01:17 PM 688 Views
The non-working wealthy? Please quantify..... - 03/09/2009 03:31:58 PM 666 Views
Paris Hilton? - 04/09/2009 03:43:19 AM 559 Views
You're so full of shit on this issue I don't know where to begin. - 04/09/2009 03:15:55 AM 645 Views
Re: You're so full of shit on this issue I don't know where to begin. - 04/09/2009 03:59:21 AM 732 Views
Less than 200 people were said to be US persons with Swiss accounts - 04/09/2009 04:16:24 AM 533 Views
And yet account for many millions of dollars; what does that say...? - 04/09/2009 04:21:57 AM 572 Views
It's statistically insignificant and your hyperbole is reminiscent of screaming guests on CNN. - 04/09/2009 02:07:31 PM 474 Views
Well, look at this way: - 04/09/2009 02:24:03 PM 604 Views
That's not a solution. - 05/09/2009 02:39:12 AM 620 Views
The Soviets weren't socialist, or even communist, so it's a false comparison. - 05/09/2009 03:09:06 AM 561 Views
Okay, now you've just gone into Kool-aid drinking territory. - 05/09/2009 04:32:07 AM 667 Views
Communist THEORY is predicated on democratic participation at every level,totally absent in the USSR - 05/09/2009 04:55:00 AM 789 Views
FINALLY!!! - 07/09/2009 10:22:53 AM 590 Views
Ever heard of the 20-80 rule? - 04/09/2009 04:28:54 AM 477 Views
Yes, and 90% of people are idiots. - 05/09/2009 02:41:35 AM 772 Views
Re: Yes, and 90% of people are idiots. - 07/09/2009 10:09:30 AM 593 Views
Top earners? Please define.....what income and how much more? *NM* - 03/09/2009 04:52:25 AM 406 Views
That would be open to definition, and should change with inflation. - 03/09/2009 05:13:02 AM 727 Views
What is your justification for taking over 50% of anyone's income? - 03/09/2009 05:28:22 AM 649 Views
That's a good example of why I say the rate has to be set to cost of living. - 03/09/2009 05:50:16 AM 694 Views
Still no comment on the fact that 40% of Americans don't pay any income taxes? - 03/09/2009 02:32:12 PM 618 Views
To what 40% do you refer? - 03/09/2009 02:42:55 PM 478 Views
Dude, you are not making this easy..... - 03/09/2009 03:38:01 PM 512 Views
No one "gets money from the IRS. " - 04/09/2009 02:55:02 AM 533 Views
Actually with EIC you can get money back that you never paid in. - 04/09/2009 02:56:43 AM 509 Views
It MIGHT be possible with the EIC, but in practice few people get more than they paid. - 04/09/2009 03:43:36 AM 551 Views
I don't know, I've known plenty of people that have gotten more back than they paid in - 04/09/2009 03:46:29 AM 640 Views
A neat trick then. - 04/09/2009 04:09:58 AM 640 Views
To be fair - 04/09/2009 04:50:20 AM 579 Views
Ah, gotcha. - 04/09/2009 04:53:58 AM 587 Views
Yet another example of your ignorance on tax policy. - 04/09/2009 03:19:39 AM 466 Views
The word I notice is "welfare" - 04/09/2009 03:57:01 AM 584 Views
I wouldn't say that's what it means.... - 04/09/2009 04:02:40 AM 581 Views
It's what welfare means to me... - 04/09/2009 04:32:17 AM 585 Views
I was just talking about EIC as a form of welfare, not welfare welfare. *NM* - 04/09/2009 04:45:13 AM 368 Views
yes, I get that now. *NM* - 04/09/2009 05:02:53 AM 349 Views
*NM* - 04/09/2009 05:14:01 AM 348 Views
Not necessarily - 04/09/2009 04:11:41 AM 509 Views
*shrugs* I have a soft heart. *NM* - 04/09/2009 04:30:52 AM 357 Views
It's a credit for people who file a return on income that's been taxed. - 04/09/2009 04:19:57 AM 510 Views
It is only for the WORKING poor, yes. - 04/09/2009 02:12:55 PM 500 Views
Mean it may be, but hardly illegal. - 04/09/2009 02:31:16 PM 536 Views
How does the business benefit? - 04/09/2009 04:54:27 PM 521 Views
I didn't realize you meant literal withholding. - 05/09/2009 03:03:32 AM 543 Views
That's a no-no, Joel - 03/09/2009 07:32:03 AM 516 Views
Europe impresses me for one simple reason: - 03/09/2009 09:21:28 AM 602 Views
No real comments, just 100% agree with you....plus the $12 trillion is terrifying to me. *NM* - 03/09/2009 04:33:39 AM 253 Views
If that scares you, check this out! - 03/09/2009 04:48:56 AM 617 Views
Excellent post - the US government is not capable of running HC..... - 03/09/2009 04:40:19 AM 454 Views
There is one thing the government did right - 03/09/2009 04:41:36 AM 574 Views
The bailout, some of it, was necessary..... - 03/09/2009 04:51:03 AM 569 Views
I still think it was too one sided. - 03/09/2009 05:21:45 AM 599 Views
It depends on your level of cynicism - 03/09/2009 05:38:53 AM 624 Views
when have they ever cut the fat? - 03/09/2009 08:35:36 PM 543 Views
Contrary to popular belief, they are quite good at it - 03/09/2009 09:05:15 PM 581 Views
Well there is only one catch *NM* - 03/09/2009 10:56:00 PM 350 Views
This doesn't make sense to me. - 03/09/2009 08:33:18 AM 593 Views
The key phrase is "should be. " - 03/09/2009 09:38:15 AM 733 Views
Re: The key phrase is "should be. " - 03/09/2009 09:47:39 AM 578 Views
That sounds like a good stop gap to me. - 03/09/2009 09:50:57 AM 632 Views
In fairness, most Europeans don't seem to realize what ObamaCare is. - 03/09/2009 02:34:01 PM 603 Views
What makes you think we do? - 03/09/2009 09:11:06 PM 615 Views
Oh, you don't either. I thought that went without saying. *NM* - 03/09/2009 09:25:54 PM 363 Views
As far as most people I know are concerned, opposition to ObamaCare isn't the issue. - 03/09/2009 11:04:36 PM 688 Views
It's hard not to be horrified with a government as wasteful as ours - 03/09/2009 11:24:59 PM 472 Views
I can understand horror of governments. - 03/09/2009 11:30:23 PM 463 Views
a bit, yes. *NM* - 04/09/2009 04:08:37 AM 372 Views
For Americans who don't understand why Canadians like their public healthcare. - 04/09/2009 04:23:11 AM 595 Views
Correction - 04/09/2009 04:44:32 AM 580 Views
Re: Correction - 04/09/2009 05:05:11 AM 658 Views
In all honesty.... - 04/09/2009 05:18:23 AM 520 Views
Re: In all honesty.... - 04/09/2009 07:19:28 AM 618 Views
Re: Correction - 04/09/2009 05:24:49 PM 548 Views
Re: Correction - 07/09/2009 10:11:45 AM 730 Views
That's a nice theory. - 04/09/2009 02:49:34 PM 600 Views
It's a fact - 04/09/2009 05:21:59 PM 564 Views
Re: It's a fact - 05/09/2009 03:18:39 AM 545 Views

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