That's getting tiresome, since you know it doesn't apply.
Joel Send a noteboard - 15/03/2010 07:13:38 AM
I MAY have been by Kos half a dozen times in as many years. Judging by the Dem party line these days, as a "kill biller" I wouldn't be welcome there these days anyway. It's more important to score a meaningless political victory over the Republicans than to pass effective legislation, after all. *pounds skull on monitor*
I'm aware of how the unions feel and why, and don't need Kos to tell me. For decades employers operating at the margins of profitability thanks to the boon of supply side economics have offered more medical insurance to unions because they couldn't offer better wages, and over time this has resulted in contracts in which great medical insurance is the biggest asset. I can understand why union members feel the same way about taxing the hell out of their biggest asset as their employers do about capital gains taxes doing it to THEIR chief asset. Yet clearly what we need is to heavily tax something whose possessors don't profit from it, rather than something whose possessors profit a great deal.
As far as punditry and its audience goes, however, I did recently have a friend tell me Mitt Romney was on Faux News explaining (as you did elsewhere) how no American is denied healthcare because they can just go to the ER and walk away from the resulting costs passed along to those with insurance. Doesn't happen to be true, but I wouldn't expect Mitt to have the firsthand experience to know that.
There is some good news for you though in the fact that all private insurance has been using cost control panels for ages; they just don't want any public option to do the same (and do want the government to legally protect their right to use them, in perpetuity. )
Insurance companies try to limit how much THEY spend on healthcare, but the cost to their policy holders is in both the direct cost of treatment AND premiums. Not only that, but the core of the "tort reform is the panacea to healthcare costs" argument is that malpractice judgments result in higher malpractice INSURANCE rates from those same insurers. Pretty much whatever happens in any aspect of healthcare, private insurances response is "raise insurance premiums" and that's driving the cost of healthcare more than anything.
On that last part I'm inclined to agree, and it's one of the biggest reasons I'm ignoring the pundits on the healthcare bill. It doesn't control costs, it just throws money at the problem in the absurd hope that if we force everyone to buy private insurance a combination of subsidies and punitive measures will meet current costs that will then stop rising at double digit percentage rates annually. Because, as we all know, the whole basis of the profit motive is you don't want to make TOO MUCH money....
It truly baffles me; the entire motive behind healthcare reform is to reduce costs and slow their meteoric rise so more and more Americans aren't forced to do without and/or bankrupted by healtchare costs. So we're going to dump a trillion tax payer dollars, plus whatever it costs those ineligible for subsidies, in the laps of private insurance and hope that sates their greed. When has giving away huge amounts of money ever reduced greed? Between Wall Street, Detroit and now Hartford I'm hard pressed to think of a President from any party who's offered big business more government handouts than Obama. And apart from extending unemployment benefits, also hard pressed to think of anything else he's done for the economy. It's hard to understand why Romeny would criticize the Presidents healthcare bill, given that he basically wrote it.
Unions are upset that their members will be required to pay taxes on the excessive amounts of health insurance they receive. Such gold platted policies help to drive the cost of healthcare up. But I also oppose Plain and her death panel attacks on common sense measures to control cost. If cost need to be controlled, which most people agree with, then someone somewhere is going to have to say that some things are simply to expensive. Of course if the dems were really serious about reducing cost and just expanding coverage they would willing to add some reasonable tort reform. They are willing to do whatever it takes to pass healthcare reform, except anger the unions and trial lawyers.
I'm aware of how the unions feel and why, and don't need Kos to tell me. For decades employers operating at the margins of profitability thanks to the boon of supply side economics have offered more medical insurance to unions because they couldn't offer better wages, and over time this has resulted in contracts in which great medical insurance is the biggest asset. I can understand why union members feel the same way about taxing the hell out of their biggest asset as their employers do about capital gains taxes doing it to THEIR chief asset. Yet clearly what we need is to heavily tax something whose possessors don't profit from it, rather than something whose possessors profit a great deal.
As far as punditry and its audience goes, however, I did recently have a friend tell me Mitt Romney was on Faux News explaining (as you did elsewhere) how no American is denied healthcare because they can just go to the ER and walk away from the resulting costs passed along to those with insurance. Doesn't happen to be true, but I wouldn't expect Mitt to have the firsthand experience to know that.
There is some good news for you though in the fact that all private insurance has been using cost control panels for ages; they just don't want any public option to do the same (and do want the government to legally protect their right to use them, in perpetuity. )
Insurance companies try and limit how much is spent on healthcare. It is in their interest to keep cost down how does that make part of the problem with rising healthcare cost? That is leap in logic I trouble following. I think part of the problem is dems are selling one thing but offering another. The bills we have seen are not designed to do anything to reign in the out of control growth and that is why they can’t build support even though most people want reform.
Insurance companies try to limit how much THEY spend on healthcare, but the cost to their policy holders is in both the direct cost of treatment AND premiums. Not only that, but the core of the "tort reform is the panacea to healthcare costs" argument is that malpractice judgments result in higher malpractice INSURANCE rates from those same insurers. Pretty much whatever happens in any aspect of healthcare, private insurances response is "raise insurance premiums" and that's driving the cost of healthcare more than anything.
On that last part I'm inclined to agree, and it's one of the biggest reasons I'm ignoring the pundits on the healthcare bill. It doesn't control costs, it just throws money at the problem in the absurd hope that if we force everyone to buy private insurance a combination of subsidies and punitive measures will meet current costs that will then stop rising at double digit percentage rates annually. Because, as we all know, the whole basis of the profit motive is you don't want to make TOO MUCH money....

It truly baffles me; the entire motive behind healthcare reform is to reduce costs and slow their meteoric rise so more and more Americans aren't forced to do without and/or bankrupted by healtchare costs. So we're going to dump a trillion tax payer dollars, plus whatever it costs those ineligible for subsidies, in the laps of private insurance and hope that sates their greed. When has giving away huge amounts of money ever reduced greed? Between Wall Street, Detroit and now Hartford I'm hard pressed to think of a President from any party who's offered big business more government handouts than Obama. And apart from extending unemployment benefits, also hard pressed to think of anything else he's done for the economy. It's hard to understand why Romeny would criticize the Presidents healthcare bill, given that he basically wrote it.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Oh my god...I'm a socialist!
- 05/03/2010 02:46:17 PM
698 Views
Just remind yourself how good the government is with its other efforts
- 05/03/2010 03:00:26 PM
410 Views
And remember that some of the biggest health insurance companies are already "non-profits".
- 05/03/2010 03:18:45 PM
394 Views
The problem with "look how bad govt. programs are" is it ignores the "starve the beast" theory.
- 05/03/2010 05:51:50 PM
496 Views
You really think taking the money oput of the system won't affect innovation?
- 05/03/2010 10:09:20 PM
394 Views
those drugs would probably still get developed, and at about the same rate as before
- 06/03/2010 07:14:07 AM
387 Views
Re: those drugs would probably still get developed, and at about the same rate as before
- 06/03/2010 09:37:44 AM
375 Views
just like taking the profit out of insurance will make healthcare affordable?
- 06/03/2010 12:12:25 PM
386 Views
No, I don't, because expired patents would drive it if nothing else did.
- 15/03/2010 06:32:55 AM
362 Views
Don't worry it isn't like we have free market economics in health care right now
- 05/03/2010 03:19:39 PM
425 Views
Hold on a sec.
- 05/03/2010 05:58:00 PM
427 Views
Well you should read somehting besides the Daily Kos
- 05/03/2010 06:25:23 PM
401 Views
That's getting tiresome, since you know it doesn't apply.
- 15/03/2010 07:13:38 AM
393 Views
That's not really a socialist policy.
- 05/03/2010 03:24:59 PM
436 Views
True. The European far-right isn't really far-right (or even right) in economic terms. *NM*
- 05/03/2010 11:46:15 PM
159 Views
you don't seem to understand socialism. visit wikipedia and check it out there. *NM*
- 05/03/2010 05:16:02 PM
157 Views
Making healthcare universally accessible is not socialist...
- 05/03/2010 05:29:16 PM
393 Views
It is universally accessible now
- 05/03/2010 05:43:52 PM
410 Views
Ah, like the Rolls Royce is universally acceptable.
- 05/03/2010 05:52:59 PM
389 Views
BS *NM*
- 05/03/2010 06:08:52 PM
147 Views
BSS
- 05/03/2010 06:28:15 PM
383 Views
Random Thoughts
- 05/03/2010 06:31:00 PM
377 Views
For profit isn't automatically BAD, just an unwise panacea for essential services.
- 05/03/2010 05:45:36 PM
451 Views
Government run isn't automatically BAD, just an unwise panacea for essential services.
- 05/03/2010 06:30:14 PM
376 Views
Universal healthcare is good...
- 05/03/2010 10:13:01 PM
412 Views
great I was really hoping we could hear from a moron and you seem to fit the bill
- 05/03/2010 11:39:15 PM
398 Views
I think he was joking RT - note the
at the end of the message
*NM*
- 06/03/2010 09:23:45 AM
206 Views
at the end of the message
*NM*
- 06/03/2010 09:23:45 AM
206 Views
How does "Don't worry, it will never happen in America either way" sound?
- 05/03/2010 11:49:23 PM
396 Views

