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Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague lyringlas Send a noteboard - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM
I would make it not happen.

Rome doesn't resort to tactics which would result in their fall and the dark ages never happen. Europe doesn't go through the intellectual lull it did and religious dogma and irrationality isn't able to take over.

As a result, mankind is much further along today.


Didn't the Plauge happen several hundred years after the fall of Rome? Or am I just being an idiot and not quite getting what your saying?

In some cases, the same diseases were responsible for multiple instances of plague, and it's hard to accurately diagnose each of them hundreds or even thousands of years later. "Plague" killed Pericles and a host of others when Athens was besieged in the Peloponessian War; WHICH plague remains an open question.

I don't agree the Romes plague near the end is what killed it though; overextension and complacency during the Pax are more attractive candidates. Christian unity and the assimilation of so many "barbarian" German tribes kept Rome on life support and hid the decline for at least a century after its peak, but had the Empire been sustainable Constantinople would never have been founded.


The plague that came through Rome crippled its army, killing most of the young Roman soldiers. This eventually forced them to try and assimilate barbarian tribes and resort to the measures that kept it on life support.

Without the plague, Rome's population might have been strong enough to sustain Roman troops and a Roman identity, instead of seeding power to outsiders.

Of course, the reason Rome fell can be debated endlessly. I'm one of those that thinks it was the plague.

Either way, if Rome hadn't fallen like it did, I think we'd be better off by a lot today. But "Have Rome not fall like it did" doesn't sound like a very good reply ;)



What are you talking about? This was how Rome thrived through its glory days: expansion, and delegation of military service. The amount of *actual* Romans from Latinum, and later even from the Italian peninsula serving in the provinces armies was negligible. The main principle of Roman military strategy was: conquer place A, take men and armies from place A and make them serve in place X, while having people from place X guarding place A. Then, after colonizing place A with people from place V, then conquer place B to give land to people from A...and continue in such a fashion to appease everyone. The heart of the empire, Rome, much like America, didn't really grasp the idea of warfare and the hardships that came with it, because the people living there were as far from the borders as possible.
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I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM 852 Views
Myself: World War I. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM 719 Views
I don't think it's that simple. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM 673 Views
I see your point. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM 665 Views
Sometimes sooner is better than later. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:10:11 AM 645 Views
True. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM 622 Views
True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM 624 Views
*nods* A small war is usually preferable to a big war. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:49:06 AM 626 Views
Re: True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. snoopcester - 07/04/2010 10:48:49 AM 630 Views
I had a teacher with an interesting theory related to that LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:57:49 AM 512 Views
Well, at this time, it was pretty well accepted that Russia wasn't exactly a techinical power. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:04:35 AM 464 Views
The Plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM 602 Views
Re: The Plague LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM 500 Views
He must be talking about a different plague, but I'm not sure which one, either. *NM* Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:37:32 AM 383 Views
Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM 660 Views
I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM 603 Views
Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM 590 Views
I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM 380 Views
...? lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM 509 Views
Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM* Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM 400 Views
If that is the case, then great *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 09:30:51 PM 353 Views
OK, think this one's been pretty thoroughly covered in my absence. Joel - 13/04/2010 11:51:16 AM 656 Views
The spread of Christianity LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM 681 Views
Huh. Wild to think about. *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:06:44 AM 386 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:47:06 PM 495 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM 520 Views
Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:40:47 PM 599 Views
Re: Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:42:25 PM 431 Views
But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM 461 Views
Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM 648 Views
precisely. LadyLorraine - 08/04/2010 05:37:26 PM 622 Views
sorry, didn't see that Lorraine already addressed this. *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:55:00 PM 381 Views
The product of Christian inspiration was heavily Hellenistic in origin... lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:54:12 PM 495 Views
The Partition of India, 1947... *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 12:59:32 AM 383 Views
Any paticular reason why? *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:34:54 AM 380 Views
Agreed. *NM* Kylia Skydancer - 07/04/2010 01:59:02 AM 501 Views
The destruction of the Great Library. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM 575 Views
Internet spam sucks indeed. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM 671 Views
We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM 628 Views
This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM 607 Views
Ya, that's what makes history so gripping. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:19:54 AM 704 Views
I don't know if that's really true... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:39:51 AM 622 Views
It wouldn't have been as sudden or extreme. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:58:39 AM 660 Views
"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM 253 Views
NOOOO1111 Joel - 07/04/2010 01:11:33 AM 535 Views
A shame. It's one of the better ones, too. *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 01:14:20 AM 382 Views
Not in the first two Civs. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:22:43 AM 470 Views
Civ, i love that game... MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 03:01:13 AM 574 Views
Yeah that's one of the small annoying things BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:34:52 AM 463 Views
An interesting point MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:57:03 AM 629 Views
That's usually my reply to this question too *NM* ironclad - 07/04/2010 11:42:55 AM 354 Views
It's crazy to think that the human knowledge base doubles every 2 years... lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:49:28 PM 463 Views
Literacy and communication have literally made a world of difference. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:25:45 AM 560 Views
if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs... moondog - 07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM 535 Views
"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here! LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM 457 Views
The spread of Islam Dragonsoul - 07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM 639 Views
oh aren't you clever. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM 363 Views
There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM 443 Views
Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same... Legolas - 07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM 606 Views
Fair enough. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM 598 Views
I read the Bernard Lewis article referred to at Wikipedia... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:19:03 PM 584 Views
So it's borrowed propaganda. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:30:39 AM 565 Views
Re: The spread of Islam Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM 671 Views
Haha, are you kidding? Dragonsoul - 08/04/2010 07:59:39 PM 439 Views
Re: Haha, are you kidding? Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:50:33 PM 425 Views
Ask yourself the question... Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:33:33 PM 441 Views
I don't see the connection. BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:49:46 PM 620 Views
Re: I don't see the connection. Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:51:21 PM 481 Views
I'd better not touch this one ßelals Girl - 07/04/2010 03:12:00 AM 649 Views
The spread of Judaism. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/04/2010 04:30:37 AM 575 Views
Re: The spread of Judaism. BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:31:02 AM 518 Views
I...do not know. Spriteling - 07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM 505 Views
A lot of times, you change one thing, and everything changes- even the things you don't think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:26:51 PM 471 Views
Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines Larry - 07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM 694 Views
Considering the way history is taught, is it surprising? *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:11:03 AM 343 Views
Nope, not really Larry - 08/04/2010 10:24:54 AM 602 Views
Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Legolas - 08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM 443 Views
Yes Larry - 08/04/2010 10:52:11 AM 581 Views
Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Camilla - 08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM 476 Views
Uh... Larry - 08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM 630 Views
Re: Uh... Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM 652 Views
The Devil is always in the details Larry - 08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM 599 Views
Re: The Devil is always in the details Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM 388 Views
Not really Larry - 08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM 558 Views
Re: Not really Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM 473 Views
Only to a degree Larry - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM 572 Views
Re: Only to a degree Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM 688 Views
I was into cultural and religious history Larry - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 575 Views
Re: I was into cultural and religious history Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM 454 Views
Ha! Larry - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM 609 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM 431 Views
I'm really sleep deprived... Larry - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM 727 Views
Re: I'm really sleep deprived... Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:19:07 PM 484 Views
Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:52:59 PM 575 Views
Interesting fact of the day for you two... Legolas - 08/04/2010 02:45:15 PM 469 Views
I know Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:46:41 PM 602 Views
It was nice being a "threadkiller" of a different sort Larry - 08/04/2010 10:08:34 PM 479 Views
Quote Pyramids of Destiny FTL *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 10:16:21 PM 369 Views
Since, surprisingly, no one's pointed it out yet, prehistory/=history. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:52:19 AM 573 Views
me being born mega rich *NM* random thoughts - 07/04/2010 02:15:34 PM 476 Views
Joanie Loves Chachi. Tigr - 07/04/2010 03:42:56 PM 532 Views
worse than "afterMASH"?? *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 03:50:10 PM 337 Views
Worse than "Joey" ? *NM* TaskmasterJack - 07/04/2010 06:48:25 PM 362 Views
If you remember Joanie loves Chachi, you might be too old? StarrBecca - 08/04/2010 12:00:34 AM 463 Views
Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. lyringlas - 07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM 482 Views
Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM* fistofpainx - 08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM 411 Views
The spread of peanut butter and jelly. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM 625 Views
I think two spreads that would be better to eliminate would be marmite and vegemite (sp). Avendesora - 08/04/2010 05:30:26 PM 589 Views
The Bread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:51 AM 620 Views
The dead of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:13:34 AM 602 Views
The thread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:14:15 AM 552 Views
The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM 581 Views
You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM* Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM 369 Views
Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM 343 Views
I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM 344 Views
I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM 349 Views
...it's pretty interesting *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:35:47 PM 408 Views
just as you thought it would be? *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:44:49 PM 344 Views
My parody. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 10:41:29 PM 559 Views
Re: My parody. Camilla - 09/04/2010 07:29:19 AM 639 Views
The 1987 Rugby World Cup Final Colonel Logain - 13/04/2010 12:23:17 PM 639 Views
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