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Only to a degree Larry Send a noteboard - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM
What if black pepper had been an indigenous plant in Europe and/or the Middle East? Not only does that impact a small but important part of medieval trade - the most long-distance one - but it also is of crucial importance to the European discovery journeys of the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries, and hence to the entire concept of colonialism.


Or what if potatoes or tobacco had not been imported from South America.


Tobacco was from North America/the Caribbean, or at least the specific species that are smoked by most people :P

Of course, if tobacco was not a cash crop, my family would never have been wealthy in the early 19th century (nor would they have lost most everything between the Panic of 1837 and the Civil War :P)


Yesyes. Details. I come from Norway. Everywhere that is warm enough for tobacco growing is per definition SOUTH.

And, of course, part of the scenario would have to be that it were never grown by European immigrants either.


It's okay. I always think "up there" for any region where snow lies on the ground more than a handful of days a year, if that much. :P

And then there's that scenario if Songhai had not been weakened by invasions from the Sahara...


Now you are back on political history.


I consider the social vacuum created by the collapse of a strong polity in the Sahel to be responsible in part for the atrocity known as the transatlantic slave trade. The social upheaval that was unleashed is something that certainly affects hundreds of millions directly and almost as many indirectly today.

That being said, some of my vocabulary would have been different if this hadn't taken place.


But that is the case with most of the political events mentioned in this thread. The interest lies in the social ramifications. The collapse of a major African kingdom is definitely a political event.


Of course, I like to think my old studies, grounded firmly in the late Weimar/pre-WWII Nazi Era, were not political in nature, although that contradictory regime certainly loomed large over everything I was researching about religious programs during that time :P
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM 800 Views
Myself: World War I. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM 665 Views
I don't think it's that simple. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM 620 Views
I see your point. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM 610 Views
Sometimes sooner is better than later. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:10:11 AM 588 Views
True. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM 569 Views
True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM 574 Views
*nods* A small war is usually preferable to a big war. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:49:06 AM 577 Views
Re: True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. snoopcester - 07/04/2010 10:48:49 AM 574 Views
I had a teacher with an interesting theory related to that LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:57:49 AM 461 Views
Well, at this time, it was pretty well accepted that Russia wasn't exactly a techinical power. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:04:35 AM 415 Views
The Plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM 552 Views
Re: The Plague LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM 451 Views
He must be talking about a different plague, but I'm not sure which one, either. *NM* Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:37:32 AM 357 Views
Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM 601 Views
I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM 544 Views
Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM 542 Views
I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM 358 Views
...? lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM 455 Views
Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM* Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM 378 Views
If that is the case, then great *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 09:30:51 PM 329 Views
OK, think this one's been pretty thoroughly covered in my absence. Joel - 13/04/2010 11:51:16 AM 603 Views
The spread of Christianity LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM 631 Views
Huh. Wild to think about. *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:06:44 AM 364 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:47:06 PM 448 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM 462 Views
Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:40:47 PM 548 Views
Re: Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:42:25 PM 387 Views
But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM 403 Views
Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM 596 Views
precisely. LadyLorraine - 08/04/2010 05:37:26 PM 573 Views
sorry, didn't see that Lorraine already addressed this. *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:55:00 PM 360 Views
The product of Christian inspiration was heavily Hellenistic in origin... lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:54:12 PM 432 Views
The Partition of India, 1947... *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 12:59:32 AM 358 Views
Any paticular reason why? *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:34:54 AM 356 Views
Agreed. *NM* Kylia Skydancer - 07/04/2010 01:59:02 AM 476 Views
The destruction of the Great Library. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM 523 Views
Internet spam sucks indeed. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM 629 Views
We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM 580 Views
This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM 548 Views
Ya, that's what makes history so gripping. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:19:54 AM 655 Views
I don't know if that's really true... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:39:51 AM 568 Views
It wouldn't have been as sudden or extreme. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:58:39 AM 607 Views
"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM 234 Views
NOOOO1111 Joel - 07/04/2010 01:11:33 AM 481 Views
A shame. It's one of the better ones, too. *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 01:14:20 AM 360 Views
Not in the first two Civs. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:22:43 AM 417 Views
Civ, i love that game... MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 03:01:13 AM 524 Views
Yeah that's one of the small annoying things BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:34:52 AM 404 Views
An interesting point MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:57:03 AM 575 Views
That's usually my reply to this question too *NM* ironclad - 07/04/2010 11:42:55 AM 331 Views
It's crazy to think that the human knowledge base doubles every 2 years... lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:49:28 PM 413 Views
Literacy and communication have literally made a world of difference. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:25:45 AM 517 Views
if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs... moondog - 07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM 479 Views
"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here! LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM 405 Views
The spread of Islam Dragonsoul - 07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM 585 Views
oh aren't you clever. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM 341 Views
There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM 394 Views
Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same... Legolas - 07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM 553 Views
Fair enough. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM 545 Views
I read the Bernard Lewis article referred to at Wikipedia... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:19:03 PM 526 Views
So it's borrowed propaganda. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:30:39 AM 513 Views
Re: The spread of Islam Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM 623 Views
Haha, are you kidding? Dragonsoul - 08/04/2010 07:59:39 PM 380 Views
Re: Haha, are you kidding? Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:50:33 PM 369 Views
Ask yourself the question... Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:33:33 PM 379 Views
I don't see the connection. BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:49:46 PM 572 Views
Re: I don't see the connection. Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:51:21 PM 429 Views
I'd better not touch this one ßelals Girl - 07/04/2010 03:12:00 AM 596 Views
The spread of Judaism. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/04/2010 04:30:37 AM 519 Views
Re: The spread of Judaism. BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:31:02 AM 467 Views
I...do not know. Spriteling - 07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM 457 Views
A lot of times, you change one thing, and everything changes- even the things you don't think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:26:51 PM 418 Views
Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines Larry - 07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM 634 Views
Considering the way history is taught, is it surprising? *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:11:03 AM 323 Views
Nope, not really Larry - 08/04/2010 10:24:54 AM 551 Views
Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Legolas - 08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM 393 Views
Yes Larry - 08/04/2010 10:52:11 AM 526 Views
Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Camilla - 08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM 425 Views
Uh... Larry - 08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM 581 Views
Re: Uh... Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM 601 Views
The Devil is always in the details Larry - 08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM 552 Views
Re: The Devil is always in the details Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM 339 Views
Not really Larry - 08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM 512 Views
Re: Not really Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM 428 Views
Only to a degree Larry - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM 516 Views
Re: Only to a degree Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM 629 Views
I was into cultural and religious history Larry - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 523 Views
Re: I was into cultural and religious history Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM 401 Views
Ha! Larry - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM 555 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM 382 Views
I'm really sleep deprived... Larry - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM 676 Views
Re: I'm really sleep deprived... Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:19:07 PM 436 Views
Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:52:59 PM 522 Views
Interesting fact of the day for you two... Legolas - 08/04/2010 02:45:15 PM 425 Views
I know Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:46:41 PM 559 Views
It was nice being a "threadkiller" of a different sort Larry - 08/04/2010 10:08:34 PM 431 Views
Quote Pyramids of Destiny FTL *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 10:16:21 PM 345 Views
Since, surprisingly, no one's pointed it out yet, prehistory/=history. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:52:19 AM 532 Views
me being born mega rich *NM* random thoughts - 07/04/2010 02:15:34 PM 409 Views
Joanie Loves Chachi. Tigr - 07/04/2010 03:42:56 PM 485 Views
worse than "afterMASH"?? *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 03:50:10 PM 317 Views
Worse than "Joey" ? *NM* TaskmasterJack - 07/04/2010 06:48:25 PM 341 Views
If you remember Joanie loves Chachi, you might be too old? StarrBecca - 08/04/2010 12:00:34 AM 409 Views
Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. lyringlas - 07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM 433 Views
Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM* fistofpainx - 08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM 392 Views
The spread of peanut butter and jelly. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM 569 Views
I think two spreads that would be better to eliminate would be marmite and vegemite (sp). Avendesora - 08/04/2010 05:30:26 PM 535 Views
The Bread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:51 AM 565 Views
The dead of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:13:34 AM 547 Views
The thread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:14:15 AM 499 Views
The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM 536 Views
You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM* Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM 346 Views
Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM 318 Views
I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM 321 Views
I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM 323 Views
...it's pretty interesting *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:35:47 PM 384 Views
just as you thought it would be? *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:44:49 PM 320 Views
My parody. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 10:41:29 PM 506 Views
Re: My parody. Camilla - 09/04/2010 07:29:19 AM 587 Views
The 1987 Rugby World Cup Final Colonel Logain - 13/04/2010 12:23:17 PM 597 Views
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