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Re: I think it started to change in the 1980s Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 27/06/2017 09:05:23 PM

There's been such a split that I usually try to make the distinction between "leftists" and "progressives," with the former focusing more on labor issues and the latter focusing more on identity politics. There is of course substantial overlap, but there are a lot of pissed off members of each group who want nothing to do with the other. The vitriol hurled between the Clinton and Sanders camps is a good example of that mechanic at work.


View original postIf you look at the pre-Woodstock/hippie culture in America, you see the phrase "liberal" applied to people in the Democratic Party who were for civil liberties (free speech, free press, etc. ) and who also believed in the New Deal and the idea of the safety net. This was back when the American Civil Liberties Union fought tooth and nail to let the Nazi Party march through Skokie, Illinois, and most of the Left supported the ACLU position as much as they hated the Nazis (1977).

This, unfortunately, seems to be a dying breed. You either get yelled at by scrawny Antifa wannabes for allowing conservatives to walk the streets unmolested or you get labelled a racist for saying college students shouldn't pull fire alarms to interrupt speakers with shitty views.

"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

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Case study of the damage liberalism can do - $15 Min Wage Anonymous2000 - 27/06/2017 01:54:54 AM 1611 Views
Seattle is a poor choice for a case study damookster - 27/06/2017 05:31:18 AM 988 Views
Well, sure, but many of those non-entry level jobs are being held by baby boomers. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 06:09:40 AM 980 Views
That's at least in part because the minimum wage makes automation more cost-effective Cannoli - 27/06/2017 11:04:28 AM 863 Views
Exactly. If you have to pay people $15/hour as a McDonald's cashier, put in the robots instead. Tom - 27/06/2017 07:18:11 PM 917 Views
That is an incredibly silly argument. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 08:56:09 PM 935 Views
If you assume wages can't go lower... Cannoli - 29/06/2017 04:52:33 AM 958 Views
Many? damookster - 27/06/2017 12:30:39 PM 953 Views
Amen. Tom - 27/06/2017 07:21:47 PM 928 Views
Yes, many. My office is full of them. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 08:59:55 PM 870 Views
So is life. damookster - 27/06/2017 09:29:01 PM 892 Views
Re: So is life. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 09:49:21 PM 897 Views
My father worked two jobs his entire working life. damookster - 27/06/2017 09:56:56 PM 906 Views
We have a 40 hour work week for a reason. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 10:17:15 PM 948 Views
That's a piss-poor analogy damookster - 27/06/2017 10:23:04 PM 884 Views
How is that really relevant, then? Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 11:03:34 PM 859 Views
I am really enjoying this new-fangled "like" feature we have now. *NM* Clover - 28/06/2017 12:13:42 AM 629 Views
*NM* Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 12:25:45 AM 499 Views
Personal choice damookster - 28/06/2017 12:20:47 AM 971 Views
Re: Personal choice Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 12:32:31 AM 937 Views
In theory I agree with your ideas about a living wage, however The Shrike - 28/06/2017 12:16:56 PM 960 Views
Very good questions Tom - 28/06/2017 03:01:02 PM 901 Views
FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY SPACE COMMUNISM. Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 07:49:59 PM 1039 Views
Also, curtailing immigration, like keeping the minimum wage low, really only delays the inevitable. Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 11:05:58 PM 908 Views
damn *NM* damookster - 27/06/2017 09:29:01 PM 574 Views
Just retire already, you luddite! *NM* Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 09:45:46 PM 552 Views
I wish. damookster - 27/06/2017 09:48:02 PM 934 Views
Bad life decisions lead to bad life consequences random thoughts - 28/06/2017 05:44:58 PM 889 Views
You also shouldn't respond to it by letting them die. Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 07:53:10 PM 913 Views
But this same arguement can be flipped by.... Jeordam - 28/06/2017 10:34:25 PM 980 Views
I feel like you're making my arguments for me here. Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 10:51:38 PM 1004 Views
an apt comparison damookster - 28/06/2017 11:09:25 PM 866 Views
So everyone who "can't" nossy - 29/06/2017 09:49:41 AM 907 Views
ummm damookster - 29/06/2017 02:06:54 PM 827 Views
I know. And I disagree with you. nossy - 29/06/2017 04:58:45 PM 951 Views
Health care and minimum wage are different discussions damookster - 29/06/2017 05:14:07 PM 957 Views
I think nossy and I are ok with letting lazy people get by... Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 08:11:36 PM 893 Views
Si nossy - 29/06/2017 09:08:03 PM 922 Views
Who said that? damookster - 29/06/2017 09:47:32 PM 971 Views
Who said what? nossy - 29/06/2017 10:32:12 PM 862 Views
There is a huge difference.... Jeordam - 29/06/2017 05:10:05 PM 928 Views
Hyperbole is all well and good for internet memes but it really doesn' advance your argument. random thoughts - 03/07/2017 04:22:59 PM 827 Views
Why does McDonalds keep coming up in this? Cannoli - 29/06/2017 06:53:46 AM 1076 Views
Nicely said. Or written. *NM* AgentApple - 29/06/2017 09:30:06 AM 532 Views
All right, so what society without minimum wage do you point to as a model? *NM* Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 09:39:12 AM 553 Views
How about "all the ones we had before the 20th century"? Cannoli - 29/06/2017 10:47:30 PM 1037 Views
The ones where hunger and scarcity were widespread? Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 11:04:02 PM 888 Views
So just to put this out there... Jeordam - 29/06/2017 11:12:47 PM 875 Views
Re: So just to put this out there... Ghavrel - 30/06/2017 01:34:03 AM 825 Views
Yes, and me being SUCH a fan of urbanization... Cannoli - 30/06/2017 03:39:51 PM 1069 Views
The example for this post was for Seattle, or perhaps King County only. damookster - 29/06/2017 11:49:32 PM 982 Views
"Attract labor"? Minimum wage labor? I believe you mean, violently repell businesses Cannoli - 30/06/2017 03:31:36 PM 947 Views
Like anything else not addressed in the Constitution, it should be up to state and local government damookster - 30/06/2017 05:22:51 PM 969 Views
I for one am entirely unsuprised. Common sense result. *NM* Urza - 27/06/2017 06:23:01 AM 586 Views
Seems like a methodology to identify struggling operations more than one to evaluate... Vodalus - 27/06/2017 10:25:30 AM 910 Views
But the traffic is the WORST. Clover - 28/06/2017 12:47:13 AM 1019 Views
You are a Husky? TIL clover is one of the Huskies. Roland00 - 28/06/2017 02:26:46 AM 842 Views
Re: But the traffic is the WORST. Vodalus - 28/06/2017 10:38:54 AM 901 Views
Just to nitpick, Switzerland isn't exactly homogeneous. Legolas - 28/06/2017 10:28:01 PM 933 Views
Don't say "liberalism" - there's nothing liberal about them. Say "Leftism". *NM* Tom - 27/06/2017 05:07:36 PM 488 Views
I was thinking the same. Even in the US, that's a weird context to use that word in. *NM* Legolas - 27/06/2017 05:50:21 PM 525 Views
Most Americans have no idea about the historical context of Liberalism. The Shrike - 27/06/2017 06:03:38 PM 893 Views
But even so, surely even in the US the main connotation is with social progressives, not economic? Legolas - 27/06/2017 06:28:54 PM 883 Views
I think it started to change in the 1980s Tom - 27/06/2017 07:14:26 PM 776 Views
Re: I think it started to change in the 1980s Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 09:05:23 PM 881 Views
Whether or not their views are shitty is a subjective determination Tom - 27/06/2017 11:15:22 PM 902 Views
A decade under conservative deans would fix the situation nicely, I think. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 11:24:41 PM 833 Views
Yes! I wonder what Dean Wormer from Faber is doing these days... *NM* Tom - 28/06/2017 12:03:46 AM 410 Views
So I've been thinking through this whole minimum wage thing.... Jeordam - 28/06/2017 05:47:26 PM 979 Views
It varies fairly significantly from location to location. MIT has a decent calculator. Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 07:56:41 PM 1425 Views
Re: So I've been thinking through this whole minimum wage thing.... Cannoli - 29/06/2017 05:08:56 AM 989 Views
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