Active Users:1154 Time:09/09/2026 03:27:36 AM
Economists have been arguing this for over 400 years. Roland00 Send a noteboard - 16/06/2020 08:22:57 PM

View original post
View original post
Were workers paid the full value of their labor? No. It's stolen. I'm someone who's tired of America's national deity being Mammon.

What is the full value of their labor? Does a kid working at a drive-through fast food place deserve $15 an hour? Does a CEO working at a corporation deserve millions? Does a heart surgeon and a custodial worker deserve equal compensation for their labor?

It should be noted that if our national deity was actually Mammon, why would we actively give money to altruistic causes?

~Jeordam


Economists have been arguing this for over 400 years. It is an inherent moral philosophy question. It is also a metaphysical question. (What is labor, what is capital, is not a single thing everyone agrees upon, furthermore these economists are not even internally consistent with their own writings when you examine what they wrote in year X and them compare a decade later with X+10)

My answer is the William James answer. You can't end a metaphysical claim, with a metaphysical answer saying this is my obligation. Metaphysics can't defeat metaphysics.

Instead Metaphysics frees the mind, but metaphysics can also imprison the mind. Instead we must organize the mind via doing action, and thus metaphysics is solved via the casuistic answer.

(this is cryptic, just read the following wikipedia article, or Ursula K Le Guin The Ones Who Walk from OMELAS.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moral_Philosopher_and_the_Moral_Life

(also remember though, casuistry can be sophistry so you have to see it as a trinity loop A=>B=>C and after C are A and B still being triggered.
Are you still outraged by the present, or did you find serenity that is true and not a false illusion.)

Reply to message
I'm curious. - 08/06/2020 06:59:18 PM 1476 Views
I would expect so, yes. *NM* - 08/06/2020 08:00:59 PM 391 Views
That yes is for which question? Or is it for both? *NM* - 08/06/2020 08:23:06 PM 405 Views
The first one. Otherwise I'd have said no and yes. *NM* - 08/06/2020 09:19:48 PM 400 Views
Yes, I believe we will... - 08/06/2020 10:15:30 PM 783 Views
Why are you so invested in either closing down the country or the seriousness of the flu? - 09/06/2020 06:37:24 PM 838 Views
Because I care about my fellow human being, cockroach. Go infest somewhere else. I'm done with you. *NM* - 09/06/2020 08:35:42 PM 433 Views
Except you don't. You really, REALLY want this disease to be worse than it is. - 12/06/2020 11:06:50 AM 780 Views
Sure. Anyone who disagrees with you wants mass poverty or mass death. No other possibility exists... - 12/06/2020 02:44:08 PM 760 Views
Fionwe same as other alt-left crazies - 16/06/2020 05:24:12 PM 818 Views
I dunno what's "alt" about it. We're the mainstream. Which must scare you - 16/06/2020 06:06:44 PM 720 Views
Dissonance - 16/06/2020 08:02:08 PM 753 Views
Do you think it's possible to disagree, even vehemently - 16/06/2020 08:14:50 PM 799 Views
I'm sure it is, in some conditions. - 16/06/2020 09:43:50 PM 788 Views
I am not a middle aged white man. I'm an old white man. - 16/06/2020 06:15:52 PM 769 Views
Evidence is not on your side, damook *NM* - 16/06/2020 07:27:39 PM 408 Views
Much like... - 16/06/2020 07:34:14 PM 814 Views
Statistically Insignificant - 16/06/2020 08:07:03 PM 745 Views
Stats don't tell the whole story. - 16/06/2020 08:06:17 PM 722 Views
You're right but on race? - 16/06/2020 08:08:40 PM 778 Views
Yes, you're right. - 16/06/2020 08:17:04 PM 712 Views
You realize that's not a contradiction, right? - 16/06/2020 09:49:56 PM 771 Views
A few points - 17/06/2020 09:29:15 PM 771 Views
I wasn't going to say it but... - 16/06/2020 08:17:57 PM 768 Views
Again: you really are a loathsome little ball of slime. - 10/06/2020 02:11:52 AM 732 Views
It's not my world, it's theirs. - 12/06/2020 11:13:14 AM 759 Views
Burning down corporate stores and taking their stolen wealth is a moral good. *NM* - 15/06/2020 12:04:52 AM 413 Views
Stolen Wealth? - 15/06/2020 04:50:59 PM 759 Views
How does one determine what is Original Sin? - 15/06/2020 05:17:37 PM 758 Views
So then.... - 15/06/2020 09:59:31 PM 761 Views
I'm uncertain if this is what Ghavrel meant, but I'd assume you don't need proof that slavery... - 15/06/2020 07:59:07 PM 756 Views
So we're talking about reparations....? - 15/06/2020 09:42:37 PM 773 Views
Why must money solve "all" issues? - 15/06/2020 11:32:05 PM 751 Views
So then money won't... - 16/06/2020 06:09:24 PM 788 Views
- 16/06/2020 06:29:59 PM 729 Views
Those aren't codified examples - 16/06/2020 07:31:49 PM 763 Views
Well that's some special nonsense - 16/06/2020 09:55:42 PM 747 Views
We're having a discussion...please try and not denigrate me. - 17/06/2020 05:26:36 PM 756 Views
But I didn't clearly state I want to denigrate you. You're inferring intent. How's that ok? - 17/06/2020 06:06:28 PM 747 Views
Pain and Death they *actively* choose... - 17/06/2020 06:39:13 PM 774 Views
They make no such choice. Which is why they're out there protesting - 17/06/2020 07:00:25 PM 790 Views
Sigh - 16/06/2020 08:15:12 PM 737 Views
Nah I just straight up think capitalism is evil. Reparations should be paid, though. *NM* - 16/06/2020 09:22:46 AM 372 Views
Fair enough. *NM* - 16/06/2020 02:54:11 PM 399 Views
aaah... - 16/06/2020 06:10:16 PM 764 Views
Re: Stolen Wealth? - 16/06/2020 09:21:32 AM 722 Views
Rather it should be The State? *NM* - 16/06/2020 12:10:59 PM 393 Views
What is "the State" - 16/06/2020 02:57:34 PM 719 Views
my comment was directed to Ghavrel. - 16/06/2020 04:49:39 PM 739 Views
You shouldn't make assumptions... - 16/06/2020 06:10:02 PM 741 Views
Lemme tell you about this cool thing called syndicalism... *NM* - 17/06/2020 06:46:38 AM 396 Views
There's a lot I like about that... *NM* - 17/06/2020 06:07:47 PM 363 Views
Syndicalisme rĂ©volutionnaire, peut-ĂȘtre? *NM* - 17/06/2020 06:29:00 PM 372 Views
I'm actually still a reformist, believe it or not. *NM* - 18/06/2020 03:29:18 PM 379 Views
Bah *NM* - 18/06/2020 03:36:20 PM 358 Views
The only state with legitimacy is the Kingdom of Heaven. *NM* - 16/06/2020 08:57:26 PM 367 Views
Are we talking about the Mormon Sect? - 16/06/2020 09:06:14 PM 688 Views
My bad - 16/06/2020 10:20:14 PM 753 Views
In fairness, I usually talk policy goals as a social democrat. - 17/06/2020 12:34:45 AM 749 Views
They - 17/06/2020 06:29:35 PM 763 Views
- 17/06/2020 06:40:30 PM 753 Views
I go by she and her, but thank you. <3 *NM* - 18/06/2020 03:45:46 PM 401 Views
I try to be very sensitive to this. - 18/06/2020 03:55:01 PM 762 Views
Catholicism by itself is a Performance Arts Piece - 18/06/2020 01:17:45 AM 710 Views
A Catholic?! What?! I'm an Episcopalian. - 18/06/2020 03:45:24 PM 777 Views
No thanks. Not into non-democracies. *NM* - 17/06/2020 06:26:29 PM 375 Views
Ah a fellow Devil's Party Member. *NM* - 18/06/2020 01:13:37 AM 361 Views
That's the debate, isn't it. - 16/06/2020 06:16:10 PM 706 Views
Economists have been arguing this for over 400 years. - 16/06/2020 08:22:57 PM 748 Views
You could let the market determine that, I guess. - 16/06/2020 08:56:23 PM 743 Views
Because we do not live in Paradise. - 17/06/2020 05:36:58 PM 720 Views
Exactly. So the worker should own the means of production with other workers. - 17/06/2020 06:11:21 PM 740 Views
So my question then is.... - 17/06/2020 06:46:11 PM 784 Views
Sigh...I just can't not. - 18/06/2020 01:20:09 AM 708 Views
You know "talent" in the Bible is explictly referring to money, right? - 18/06/2020 03:43:11 PM 775 Views
Jesus also said it is easier for a camel to pass though a needle's eye... - 18/06/2020 03:49:43 PM 702 Views
This is true! - 18/06/2020 04:04:16 PM 761 Views
Thou shalt not steal. *NM* - 15/06/2020 11:10:34 PM 344 Views
Is a concern of mine - 08/06/2020 10:16:09 PM 741 Views
A natural experiment - 08/06/2020 10:42:34 PM 716 Views
Yes, we probably will. But demonstrators wearing masks are not normal life. - 09/06/2020 07:10:31 AM 760 Views
I'm not sure that's a valid comparison. - 09/06/2020 05:57:31 PM 730 Views
Agreed. These aren't comparable situations. - 09/06/2020 06:09:27 PM 750 Views
Down South that is called Communism Mookie. - 09/06/2020 06:32:06 PM 731 Views
Alabama is down south, right? - 09/06/2020 10:08:15 PM 719 Views
We have all the same rules here in Seattle - 10/06/2020 07:45:59 PM 760 Views
I figured you - 09/06/2020 10:09:36 PM 716 Views
About your original question... - 17/06/2020 09:25:38 PM 755 Views
that is encouraging - 17/06/2020 09:44:10 PM 755 Views
Re: that is encouraging - 17/06/2020 10:10:34 PM 689 Views
Seems indoors with strangers is more a predictor than outdoor protests. - 27/06/2020 02:38:07 AM 825 Views
Tips, maybe? - 27/06/2020 05:10:30 AM 748 Views
Perhaps - 27/06/2020 10:19:39 PM 668 Views
A 315 city study, BLM protests did not cause a spike in COVID cases. - 27/06/2020 10:19:05 PM 733 Views

Reply to Message