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Economists have been arguing this for over 400 years. Roland00 Send a noteboard - 16/06/2020 08:22:57 PM

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Were workers paid the full value of their labor? No. It's stolen. I'm someone who's tired of America's national deity being Mammon.

What is the full value of their labor? Does a kid working at a drive-through fast food place deserve $15 an hour? Does a CEO working at a corporation deserve millions? Does a heart surgeon and a custodial worker deserve equal compensation for their labor?

It should be noted that if our national deity was actually Mammon, why would we actively give money to altruistic causes?

~Jeordam


Economists have been arguing this for over 400 years. It is an inherent moral philosophy question. It is also a metaphysical question. (What is labor, what is capital, is not a single thing everyone agrees upon, furthermore these economists are not even internally consistent with their own writings when you examine what they wrote in year X and them compare a decade later with X+10)

My answer is the William James answer. You can't end a metaphysical claim, with a metaphysical answer saying this is my obligation. Metaphysics can't defeat metaphysics.

Instead Metaphysics frees the mind, but metaphysics can also imprison the mind. Instead we must organize the mind via doing action, and thus metaphysics is solved via the casuistic answer.

(this is cryptic, just read the following wikipedia article, or Ursula K Le Guin The Ones Who Walk from OMELAS.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moral_Philosopher_and_the_Moral_Life

(also remember though, casuistry can be sophistry so you have to see it as a trinity loop A=>B=>C and after C are A and B still being triggered.
Are you still outraged by the present, or did you find serenity that is true and not a false illusion.)

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I'm curious. - 08/06/2020 06:59:18 PM 1406 Views
I would expect so, yes. *NM* - 08/06/2020 08:00:59 PM 341 Views
That yes is for which question? Or is it for both? *NM* - 08/06/2020 08:23:06 PM 351 Views
The first one. Otherwise I'd have said no and yes. *NM* - 08/06/2020 09:19:48 PM 342 Views
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Fionwe same as other alt-left crazies - 16/06/2020 05:24:12 PM 743 Views
I dunno what's "alt" about it. We're the mainstream. Which must scare you - 16/06/2020 06:06:44 PM 646 Views
Dissonance - 16/06/2020 08:02:08 PM 660 Views
Do you think it's possible to disagree, even vehemently - 16/06/2020 08:14:50 PM 716 Views
I'm sure it is, in some conditions. - 16/06/2020 09:43:50 PM 719 Views
I am not a middle aged white man. I'm an old white man. - 16/06/2020 06:15:52 PM 697 Views
Evidence is not on your side, damook *NM* - 16/06/2020 07:27:39 PM 353 Views
Much like... - 16/06/2020 07:34:14 PM 736 Views
Statistically Insignificant - 16/06/2020 08:07:03 PM 667 Views
Stats don't tell the whole story. - 16/06/2020 08:06:17 PM 644 Views
You're right but on race? - 16/06/2020 08:08:40 PM 702 Views
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You realize that's not a contradiction, right? - 16/06/2020 09:49:56 PM 697 Views
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Again: you really are a loathsome little ball of slime. - 10/06/2020 02:11:52 AM 661 Views
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Burning down corporate stores and taking their stolen wealth is a moral good. *NM* - 15/06/2020 12:04:52 AM 357 Views
Stolen Wealth? - 15/06/2020 04:50:59 PM 684 Views
How does one determine what is Original Sin? - 15/06/2020 05:17:37 PM 679 Views
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So then money won't... - 16/06/2020 06:09:24 PM 719 Views
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Those aren't codified examples - 16/06/2020 07:31:49 PM 684 Views
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We're having a discussion...please try and not denigrate me. - 17/06/2020 05:26:36 PM 682 Views
But I didn't clearly state I want to denigrate you. You're inferring intent. How's that ok? - 17/06/2020 06:06:28 PM 677 Views
Pain and Death they *actively* choose... - 17/06/2020 06:39:13 PM 697 Views
They make no such choice. Which is why they're out there protesting - 17/06/2020 07:00:25 PM 709 Views
Sigh - 16/06/2020 08:15:12 PM 656 Views
Nah I just straight up think capitalism is evil. Reparations should be paid, though. *NM* - 16/06/2020 09:22:46 AM 342 Views
Fair enough. *NM* - 16/06/2020 02:54:11 PM 343 Views
aaah... - 16/06/2020 06:10:16 PM 690 Views
Re: Stolen Wealth? - 16/06/2020 09:21:32 AM 645 Views
Rather it should be The State? *NM* - 16/06/2020 12:10:59 PM 333 Views
What is "the State" - 16/06/2020 02:57:34 PM 649 Views
my comment was directed to Ghavrel. - 16/06/2020 04:49:39 PM 662 Views
You shouldn't make assumptions... - 16/06/2020 06:10:02 PM 667 Views
Lemme tell you about this cool thing called syndicalism... *NM* - 17/06/2020 06:46:38 AM 343 Views
There's a lot I like about that... *NM* - 17/06/2020 06:07:47 PM 312 Views
Syndicalisme rĂ©volutionnaire, peut-ĂȘtre? *NM* - 17/06/2020 06:29:00 PM 315 Views
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Bah *NM* - 18/06/2020 03:36:20 PM 301 Views
The only state with legitimacy is the Kingdom of Heaven. *NM* - 16/06/2020 08:57:26 PM 314 Views
Are we talking about the Mormon Sect? - 16/06/2020 09:06:14 PM 616 Views
My bad - 16/06/2020 10:20:14 PM 673 Views
In fairness, I usually talk policy goals as a social democrat. - 17/06/2020 12:34:45 AM 676 Views
They - 17/06/2020 06:29:35 PM 690 Views
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I go by she and her, but thank you. <3 *NM* - 18/06/2020 03:45:46 PM 347 Views
I try to be very sensitive to this. - 18/06/2020 03:55:01 PM 683 Views
Catholicism by itself is a Performance Arts Piece - 18/06/2020 01:17:45 AM 639 Views
A Catholic?! What?! I'm an Episcopalian. - 18/06/2020 03:45:24 PM 705 Views
No thanks. Not into non-democracies. *NM* - 17/06/2020 06:26:29 PM 325 Views
Ah a fellow Devil's Party Member. *NM* - 18/06/2020 01:13:37 AM 311 Views
That's the debate, isn't it. - 16/06/2020 06:16:10 PM 635 Views
Economists have been arguing this for over 400 years. - 16/06/2020 08:22:57 PM 662 Views
You could let the market determine that, I guess. - 16/06/2020 08:56:23 PM 672 Views
Because we do not live in Paradise. - 17/06/2020 05:36:58 PM 637 Views
Exactly. So the worker should own the means of production with other workers. - 17/06/2020 06:11:21 PM 658 Views
So my question then is.... - 17/06/2020 06:46:11 PM 707 Views
Sigh...I just can't not. - 18/06/2020 01:20:09 AM 631 Views
You know "talent" in the Bible is explictly referring to money, right? - 18/06/2020 03:43:11 PM 694 Views
Jesus also said it is easier for a camel to pass though a needle's eye... - 18/06/2020 03:49:43 PM 632 Views
This is true! - 18/06/2020 04:04:16 PM 690 Views
Thou shalt not steal. *NM* - 15/06/2020 11:10:34 PM 311 Views
Is a concern of mine - 08/06/2020 10:16:09 PM 667 Views
A natural experiment - 08/06/2020 10:42:34 PM 643 Views
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I'm not sure that's a valid comparison. - 09/06/2020 05:57:31 PM 650 Views
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Down South that is called Communism Mookie. - 09/06/2020 06:32:06 PM 664 Views
Alabama is down south, right? - 09/06/2020 10:08:15 PM 649 Views
We have all the same rules here in Seattle - 10/06/2020 07:45:59 PM 687 Views
I figured you - 09/06/2020 10:09:36 PM 640 Views
About your original question... - 17/06/2020 09:25:38 PM 679 Views
that is encouraging - 17/06/2020 09:44:10 PM 679 Views
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Seems indoors with strangers is more a predictor than outdoor protests. - 27/06/2020 02:38:07 AM 743 Views
Tips, maybe? - 27/06/2020 05:10:30 AM 680 Views
Perhaps - 27/06/2020 10:19:39 PM 621 Views
A 315 city study, BLM protests did not cause a spike in COVID cases. - 27/06/2020 10:19:05 PM 678 Views

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