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Because we do not live in Paradise. Jeordam Send a noteboard - 17/06/2020 05:36:58 PM

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But you're asking the wrong questions. It's not "does the worker deserve $15/hr," but "why is the wealth being created by the worker going somewhere other than to him?" And the answer is simple: because somebody else owns the franchise. That person extracts wealth by virtue of allowing people to operate the means of production.

If our country WEREN'T captivated by the lust for money, why are there people choosing between rent and medicine each month?


"Why is the wealth being created by the worker going somewhere other than to him?" I'd say because that worker isn't generating wealth in a vacuum. Instead, that worker is generating wealth selling a product (which he didn't buy), cooking with tools (which he didn't buy), and selling to customers (which he didn't attract). That worker is not entitled to the full wealth that he is helping to generate.

And why are some people choosing between rent & medicine? The simple answer is that we don't live in a perfect world, and they are going to have to make some decisions on what is the most needed. Most of us will never live in a situation where every need is met. Almost none of us will live in a world where every want is met. The more nuanced answer is that all of the financial decisions that the individual has/is making would need to be examined to see if the choice is truly between rent and medicine.

~Jeordam

ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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I'm curious. damookster - 08/06/2020 06:59:18 PM 1176 Views
Knowledge is always uncertain, there will always be under and overreactions. Roland00 - 08/06/2020 07:06:35 PM 440 Views
I would expect so, yes. *NM* Legolas - 08/06/2020 08:00:59 PM 233 Views
That yes is for which question? Or is it for both? *NM* damookster - 08/06/2020 08:23:06 PM 236 Views
The first one. Otherwise I'd have said no and yes. *NM* Legolas - 08/06/2020 09:19:48 PM 229 Views
Yes, I believe we will... fionwe1987 - 08/06/2020 10:15:30 PM 483 Views
Why are you so invested in either closing down the country or the seriousness of the flu? Cannoli - 09/06/2020 06:37:24 PM 511 Views
Because I care about my fellow human being, cockroach. Go infest somewhere else. I'm done with you. *NM* fionwe1987 - 09/06/2020 08:35:42 PM 242 Views
Except you don't. You really, REALLY want this disease to be worse than it is. Cannoli - 12/06/2020 11:06:50 AM 478 Views
Sure. Anyone who disagrees with you wants mass poverty or mass death. No other possibility exists... fionwe1987 - 12/06/2020 02:44:08 PM 460 Views
Fionwe same as other alt-left crazies Nargs - 16/06/2020 05:24:12 PM 497 Views
I dunno what's "alt" about it. We're the mainstream. Which must scare you fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 06:06:44 PM 419 Views
Dissonance Nargs - 16/06/2020 08:02:08 PM 419 Views
Do you think it's possible to disagree, even vehemently damookster - 16/06/2020 08:14:50 PM 500 Views
I'm sure it is, in some conditions. fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 09:43:50 PM 489 Views
I am not a middle aged white man. I'm an old white man. damookster - 16/06/2020 06:15:52 PM 482 Views
Evidence is not on your side, damook *NM* Nargs - 16/06/2020 07:27:39 PM 238 Views
Much like... Jeordam - 16/06/2020 07:34:14 PM 509 Views
Statistically Insignificant Nargs - 16/06/2020 08:07:03 PM 437 Views
Stats don't tell the whole story. damookster - 16/06/2020 08:06:17 PM 437 Views
You're right but on race? Nargs - 16/06/2020 08:08:40 PM 478 Views
Yes, you're right. damookster - 16/06/2020 08:17:04 PM 432 Views
You realize that's not a contradiction, right? fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 09:49:56 PM 457 Views
A few points gban007 - 17/06/2020 09:29:15 PM 460 Views
I wasn't going to say it but... Nargs - 16/06/2020 08:17:57 PM 489 Views
Again: you really are a loathsome little ball of slime. Ghavrel - 10/06/2020 02:11:52 AM 442 Views
It's not my world, it's theirs. Cannoli - 12/06/2020 11:13:14 AM 479 Views
Burning down corporate stores and taking their stolen wealth is a moral good. *NM* Ghavrel - 15/06/2020 12:04:52 AM 239 Views
Stolen Wealth? Jeordam - 15/06/2020 04:50:59 PM 472 Views
How does one determine what is Original Sin? Roland00 - 15/06/2020 05:17:37 PM 464 Views
So then.... Jeordam - 15/06/2020 09:59:31 PM 450 Views
I'm uncertain if this is what Ghavrel meant, but I'd assume you don't need proof that slavery... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2020 07:59:07 PM 446 Views
So we're talking about reparations....? Jeordam - 15/06/2020 09:42:37 PM 465 Views
Why must money solve "all" issues? fionwe1987 - 15/06/2020 11:32:05 PM 439 Views
So then money won't... Jeordam - 16/06/2020 06:09:24 PM 446 Views
fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 06:29:59 PM 448 Views
Those aren't codified examples Jeordam - 16/06/2020 07:31:49 PM 448 Views
Well that's some special nonsense fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 09:55:42 PM 454 Views
We're having a discussion...please try and not denigrate me. Jeordam - 17/06/2020 05:26:36 PM 440 Views
But I didn't clearly state I want to denigrate you. You're inferring intent. How's that ok? fionwe1987 - 17/06/2020 06:06:28 PM 451 Views
Pain and Death they *actively* choose... Jeordam - 17/06/2020 06:39:13 PM 477 Views
They make no such choice. Which is why they're out there protesting fionwe1987 - 17/06/2020 07:00:25 PM 491 Views
Sigh Roland00 - 16/06/2020 08:15:12 PM 431 Views
Nah I just straight up think capitalism is evil. Reparations should be paid, though. *NM* Ghavrel - 16/06/2020 09:22:46 AM 220 Views
Fair enough. *NM* fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 02:54:11 PM 213 Views
aaah... Jeordam - 16/06/2020 06:10:16 PM 454 Views
Re: Stolen Wealth? Ghavrel - 16/06/2020 09:21:32 AM 426 Views
Rather it should be The State? *NM* damookster - 16/06/2020 12:10:59 PM 212 Views
What is "the State" fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 02:57:34 PM 431 Views
my comment was directed to Ghavrel. damookster - 16/06/2020 04:49:39 PM 435 Views
You shouldn't make assumptions... fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 06:10:02 PM 445 Views
Lemme tell you about this cool thing called syndicalism... *NM* Ghavrel - 17/06/2020 06:46:38 AM 229 Views
There's a lot I like about that... *NM* fionwe1987 - 17/06/2020 06:07:47 PM 200 Views
Syndicalisme révolutionnaire, peut-être? *NM* damookster - 17/06/2020 06:29:00 PM 195 Views
I'm actually still a reformist, believe it or not. *NM* Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 03:29:18 PM 218 Views
Bah *NM* damookster - 18/06/2020 03:36:20 PM 196 Views
I been thinking about the different religious sects of Himboism, suddenly ... Roland00 - 29/06/2020 01:30:09 AM 419 Views
The only state with legitimacy is the Kingdom of Heaven. *NM* Ghavrel - 16/06/2020 08:57:26 PM 203 Views
Are we talking about the Mormon Sect? Roland00 - 16/06/2020 09:06:14 PM 419 Views
My bad damookster - 16/06/2020 10:20:14 PM 446 Views
In fairness, I usually talk policy goals as a social democrat. Ghavrel - 17/06/2020 12:34:45 AM 444 Views
They The Shrike - 17/06/2020 06:29:35 PM 467 Views
damookster - 17/06/2020 06:40:30 PM 466 Views
I go by she and her, but thank you. <3 *NM* Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 03:45:46 PM 229 Views
I try to be very sensitive to this. damookster - 18/06/2020 03:55:01 PM 462 Views
It means a great deal to me. I can't overstate how much it means to your grandson. *NM* Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 04:04:53 PM 236 Views
Catholicism by itself is a Performance Arts Piece Roland00 - 18/06/2020 01:17:45 AM 441 Views
A Catholic?! What?! I'm an Episcopalian. Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 03:45:24 PM 474 Views
No thanks. Not into non-democracies. *NM* The Shrike - 17/06/2020 06:26:29 PM 209 Views
Ah a fellow Devil's Party Member. *NM* Roland00 - 18/06/2020 01:13:37 AM 196 Views
I can empathize with this view, actually, though I no longer hold it. *NM* Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 03:47:24 PM 233 Views
That's the debate, isn't it. Jeordam - 16/06/2020 06:16:10 PM 425 Views
Economists have been arguing this for over 400 years. Roland00 - 16/06/2020 08:22:57 PM 434 Views
You could let the market determine that, I guess. Ghavrel - 16/06/2020 08:56:23 PM 420 Views
Because we do not live in Paradise. Jeordam - 17/06/2020 05:36:58 PM 419 Views
Exactly. So the worker should own the means of production with other workers. Ghavrel - 17/06/2020 06:11:21 PM 428 Views
So my question then is.... Jeordam - 17/06/2020 06:46:11 PM 464 Views
Sigh...I just can't not. Roland00 - 18/06/2020 01:20:09 AM 381 Views
You know "talent" in the Bible is explictly referring to money, right? Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 03:43:11 PM 462 Views
Jesus also said it is easier for a camel to pass though a needle's eye... damookster - 18/06/2020 03:49:43 PM 421 Views
This is true! Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 04:04:16 PM 476 Views
Thou shalt not steal. *NM* The Shrike - 15/06/2020 11:10:34 PM 199 Views
"Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel." *NM* Ghavrel - 16/06/2020 09:19:26 AM 216 Views
"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's" *NM* damookster - 16/06/2020 12:13:15 PM 185 Views
Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. *NM* The Shrike - 16/06/2020 12:15:04 PM 203 Views
"Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you..." *NM* Ghavrel - 16/06/2020 10:15:41 PM 217 Views
Is a concern of mine gban007 - 08/06/2020 10:16:09 PM 473 Views
A natural experiment fionwe1987 - 08/06/2020 10:42:34 PM 424 Views
Yes, we probably will. But demonstrators wearing masks are not normal life. Ghavrel - 09/06/2020 07:10:31 AM 468 Views
I'm not sure that's a valid comparison. damookster - 09/06/2020 05:57:31 PM 421 Views
Agreed. These aren't comparable situations. fionwe1987 - 09/06/2020 06:09:27 PM 439 Views
Down South that is called Communism Mookie. Roland00 - 09/06/2020 06:32:06 PM 427 Views
Alabama is down south, right? aerocontrols - 09/06/2020 10:08:15 PM 442 Views
I was comparing it to a control situation of no state action in response to SARS-CoV-2. Ghavrel - 10/06/2020 02:09:19 AM 435 Views
We have all the same rules here in Seattle Bad Ash - 10/06/2020 07:45:59 PM 449 Views
I figured you aerocontrols - 09/06/2020 10:09:36 PM 435 Views
About your original question... fionwe1987 - 17/06/2020 09:25:38 PM 453 Views
that is encouraging damookster - 17/06/2020 09:44:10 PM 460 Views
Re: that is encouraging fionwe1987 - 17/06/2020 10:10:34 PM 409 Views
Seems indoors with strangers is more a predictor than outdoor protests. Roland00 - 27/06/2020 02:38:07 AM 533 Views
Tips, maybe? fionwe1987 - 27/06/2020 05:10:30 AM 470 Views
Perhaps Roland00 - 27/06/2020 10:19:39 PM 378 Views
A 315 city study, BLM protests did not cause a spike in COVID cases. Roland00 - 27/06/2020 10:19:05 PM 435 Views
Sigh, here is some bad news. Case Reports and a Lab study suggests COVID may cause type 1 diabetes Roland00 - 28/06/2020 06:11:45 AM 404 Views
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