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...Because the Church being subject to civil authority for centuries really stopped the pedophilia? Cannoli Send a noteboard - 07/01/2021 04:16:13 PM

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Becket was an obnoxious fanatic, filled with his own delusions of grandeur, and quite simply in the wrong. The idea that crimes committed by members of the clergy (which included not just priests but anyone associated with the Church, which was just about anyone who could write back then) could be tried only by Church tribunals
Not that I disagree in principle, but the way you say this suggests that otherwise the literate class should be tried by nobles selected by an accident of birth or a jury of illiterates. Henry II was, at best, just getting the English justice system off the ground. Asking the Church to surrender its own protections and trust this relatively new justice system is going to work out, is a bit much. Our experience with the civil courts is based on the finished product of centuries of evolution and adjustments. In the 12th century, the choices were the king's justice, which was really a power grab against the nobles (how'd the end result of the centralizing of royal power against the aristocracy work out for the Church when it hit its apex four hundred years later? ), or the local aristocracy's whim. For an educated professional, a trial by the Church, which was far and away the closest thing to a meritocracy among the major institutions of the medieval world, was probably a better bet. Down the road, if you were going to be accused of witchcraft, you'd be much better off being accused in Spain under the Inquisition, which threw out thousands of cases, than in England or Germany.



is a terrible idea and one that I believe in modern times we all agree is a terrible idea. The failure of the Church regarding the pedophilia problem is ample evidence of this fact.
The failure was that the Church didn't have an Inquisition or any means of going after them, and supine clergy, fearing the bad opinion of the world more than God's Justice, kept it quiet (and weak parents took payouts to leave the next kids vulnerable).
Henry II should have had the balls to openly do what he did indirectly and in a passive-aggressive way. He should have tried Becket, found him guilty, drawn and quartered him and sent the body parts to the four corners of his kingdom.

Had he asserted authority then, and stood on principle, he would have likely gotten more autonomy for the English Church and perhaps staved off the rupture that centuries later created the semblance of a faith known as the Church of England.

I don't see where that worked anywhere else. Once a Church gets nationalized, that's the inevitable end.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
The Church of England
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White House Proclamation on the Anniversary of the death of Thomas Becket - 30/12/2020 03:24:06 AM 518 Views
I'm ashamed to say that I didn't know about Thomas Beckett. - 31/12/2020 04:49:22 AM 163 Views
Henry II was right - 06/01/2021 02:49:00 PM 163 Views
sounds like some detestible enormities to me but go off chief *NM* - 06/01/2021 09:19:35 PM 141 Views
...Because the Church being subject to civil authority for centuries really stopped the pedophilia? - 07/01/2021 04:16:13 PM 258 Views
If it were handled by clerical tribunals the story would be "What pedophilia?" - 09/01/2021 12:15:52 AM 157 Views
I'd like to think that an Inquisition a few generations ago might have resulted in better clergy now - 09/01/2021 11:39:17 AM 152 Views
Perhaps - 09/01/2021 09:31:37 PM 157 Views

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