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This is a flawed argument in two entirely separate and divergent ways. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 08/01/2014 01:49:27 AM

So problem 1:


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Stephen had access to a night kill.

He either got it from

a) Being a vampire

or

b) being a member of a faction


This is Mafia 33. I have 32 games to draw from for very concrete, very demonstrable examples of characters with a night kill that were neither a) a vampire nor b) a member of a faction.

It's not like "vigilante" or "serial killer" are even obscure roles or anything.

And problem 2:


View original post
Stephen had access to a night kill.

He either got it from

a) Being a vampire

or

b) being a member of a faction


If the Night Kill ability does not come from being part of a faction - and since her Watch faction ability wasn't revealed, it's almost certainly doesn't - then why should we be lynching vampires? Even if we were to accept your unfounded assumptions that every vampire has a Night Kill, how is that even relevant to anything? The town wins when the scum faction is eliminated, and the best evidence suggests that vampires are not the scum faction. They are currently the least suspect of all players here. And that fact is reason enough for any remaining vampires not to use any Night Kills they may or may not have because that would instantly lose them their best defence. What is it you wish to accomplish? I've never before seen a game with so much dedication to lynching a player because she is suspected of possibly being a vigilante. Hell, even when Isaac got the town to hunt a phantom Serial Killer instead of the mafia he wasn't this zealous about it, and I still immediately and correctly suspected him of being scum for it.

What is your objective in this game, beetnemesis? You've been chomping at the bit to get vampires lynched from Day 1, with less and less reason to do it. I'm very much entertaining the suspicion that you are the one who Night Killed Stephen because you simply hate vampires that much.

Would it make you feel better if the Watch investigated players to get a vampire registry? We can investigate players to discover their race or nationality, and I'm fine with tighter control over lethal actions. But really, I think even if they can, the vampires would have to be really stupid to try to night kill anybody right now.

The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Mafia 33: Discworld, Day 4 - A New Soap - 23/12/2013 02:05:56 PM 2203 Views
I was kind of hoping we had a Watch faction that would take out a Hippo tonight. - 23/12/2013 03:22:57 PM 1516 Views
I targeted a lot of people and don't know against whom I was successful or not. *NM* - 23/12/2013 11:47:29 PM 987 Views
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm *NM* - 24/12/2013 07:46:16 AM 929 Views
"a lot of people" and "don't know" the results - 24/12/2013 08:03:12 AM 1477 Views
You oughtn't be so surprised. - 24/12/2013 07:22:47 PM 1444 Views
Seems pretty consistent to me - 24/12/2013 07:40:33 PM 1591 Views
...it does? His last hypocop was "Did nothing so I could save Morale" - 24/12/2013 09:51:02 PM 1350 Views
Re: ...it does? His last hypocop was "Did nothing so I could save Morale" - 24/12/2013 10:15:41 PM 1378 Views
Re: Seems pretty consistent to me - 25/12/2013 04:09:14 AM 1446 Views
I'd like to know if you targetted me, as well. - 25/12/2013 02:17:25 PM 1546 Views
Did something happen to you? - 27/12/2013 03:45:20 AM 1455 Views
I believe so - 28/12/2013 12:58:24 AM 1467 Views
Well? Did you target me? I will make a statement immediately upon your answer. - 29/12/2013 03:52:17 AM 1307 Views
Why would I answer? - 29/12/2013 03:59:24 AM 1356 Views
Fine, then. Vote: Yunalesca - 30/12/2013 03:59:03 PM 1400 Views
Hmm - 01/01/2014 07:01:52 PM 1374 Views
I know people are reluctant to lynch "nice" vampires - 02/01/2014 02:44:47 PM 1503 Views
On the other hand... - 02/01/2014 06:15:48 PM 1436 Views
...you mean the one Night Kill victim we've had? - 02/01/2014 06:56:38 PM 1383 Views
So soap trumps night kill? - 04/01/2014 07:08:11 AM 1358 Views
Pretty sure I presented three reasons why I felt we should lynch Yuna - 04/01/2014 07:47:39 AM 1521 Views
Re: Pretty sure I presented three reasons why I felt we should lynch Yuna - 04/01/2014 06:58:57 PM 1575 Views
Short and sweet rebuttals - 04/01/2014 07:22:41 PM 1548 Views
My initial reaction... - 04/01/2014 10:47:11 PM 1385 Views
Re: Short and sweet rebuttals - 05/01/2014 03:37:18 AM 1429 Views
I say that a player likely attacking other players is a higher risk - 05/01/2014 02:37:40 PM 1344 Views
Not by your definition of "attacking", no. - 05/01/2014 06:08:49 PM 1448 Views
Re: Short and sweet rebuttals - 06/01/2014 05:24:43 AM 1521 Views
Re: Short and sweet rebuttals - 06/01/2014 05:51:20 AM 1470 Views
True, but there is no indication of a different group, is there? *NM* - 04/01/2014 07:37:15 PM 894 Views
Hmm. Apparentely my last post was not posted - 24/12/2013 07:58:55 AM 1436 Views
Fanatic-Templar - Not Guilty *NM* - 25/12/2013 10:18:51 AM 937 Views
Re: Hmm. Apparentely my last post was not posted - 25/12/2013 11:11:17 AM 1354 Views
At first I was like "Waah?", but then I noticed this... - 23/12/2013 09:08:16 PM 1518 Views
Hypocop Table - 25/12/2013 02:21:42 PM 1377 Views
Praziquantel - Not Guilty *NM* - 27/12/2013 04:58:14 AM 823 Views
FT not guilty *NM* - 27/12/2013 05:06:39 PM 961 Views
Re: Hypocop Table - 28/12/2013 04:12:15 PM 1542 Views
Bergioyn - Not Guilty - 02/01/2014 04:23:24 PM 1392 Views
Re: Mafia 33: Discworld, Day 4 - A New Soap - 30/12/2013 10:14:14 AM 1503 Views
Happy New Year! - 02/01/2014 02:37:51 PM 1415 Views
You too, I'll do my best. *NM* - 04/01/2014 07:35:03 PM 825 Views
Alright so hopefully this will get us to start talking/thinking again - 02/01/2014 09:45:23 PM 1740 Views
I'm guessing it's because of the RPS system - 03/01/2014 03:01:06 AM 1421 Views
What is your opinion of my vote towards Yuna? - 03/01/2014 03:04:16 AM 1402 Views
Yuna? Do you have any response to my accusation? *NM* - 07/01/2014 12:08:20 AM 806 Views
So, the promised roleclaim (most of it, at least). - 07/01/2014 03:48:16 AM 1512 Views
OK, so NOW do you concede that Stephen's NK was from being a vampire? - 07/01/2014 04:29:41 AM 1407 Views
? - 07/01/2014 07:38:55 AM 1338 Views
Hell, even if this weren't my own information... - 07/01/2014 08:35:33 AM 1484 Views
And furthermore... - 07/01/2014 08:41:11 AM 1435 Views
He had to get a NK from SOMEWHERE. And if you're dedicated to eliminating NKs... - 07/01/2014 08:54:38 PM 1532 Views
No. You do know what an individual role is, don't you? - 07/01/2014 10:06:16 PM 1476 Views
...what? - 07/01/2014 11:35:33 PM 1387 Views
This is a flawed argument in two entirely separate and divergent ways. - 08/01/2014 01:49:27 AM 1365 Views
Any "role" with a Night Kill would be incongruous - 08/01/2014 05:19:34 AM 1486 Views
Re: Any "role" with a Night Kill would be incongruous - 08/01/2014 07:25:04 AM 1560 Views
I'm just going off of what you're telling us about the Watch - 08/01/2014 02:17:25 PM 1444 Views
Re: I'm just going off of what you're telling us about the Watch - 08/01/2014 06:10:43 PM 1494 Views
How do you know we even have an undead faction? - 08/01/2014 04:28:16 PM 1263 Views
OK, this makes sense. - 07/01/2014 10:07:44 AM 1511 Views
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. - 07/01/2014 08:26:15 PM 1385 Views
Oh. Euhm. Wow - 08/01/2014 06:39:57 AM 1485 Views
Yeah, that was actually the first thing I asked about during the Night. - 08/01/2014 07:33:10 AM 1421 Views
Were you definitely blocked by the Watch? - 08/01/2014 02:45:17 PM 1539 Views
Re: Oh. Euhm. Wow - 08/01/2014 05:43:02 PM 1685 Views
Good work, F-T - 08/01/2014 05:40:41 PM 1758 Views
Re: Good work, F-T - 08/01/2014 06:09:56 PM 1527 Views
So... you want to lynch me, because I want to lynch scum? - 08/01/2014 08:50:26 PM 1412 Views
This only counts if your Victory conditions align with the Watch's - 09/01/2014 03:25:02 PM 1447 Views
Re: This only counts if your Victory conditions align with the Watch's - 09/01/2014 05:33:39 PM 1456 Views
Re: This only counts if your Victory conditions align with the Watch's - 09/01/2014 06:42:44 PM 1551 Views
Re: This only counts if your Victory conditions align with the Watch's - 10/01/2014 04:38:55 AM 1641 Views
Whaaaaaat. We're not nation-building, here. - 10/01/2014 06:04:16 AM 1489 Views
And why shouldn't they? - 10/01/2014 04:25:21 AM 1695 Views
What if Stephen wasn't the target? - 09/01/2014 03:11:38 PM 1447 Views
VNTL/modkill notes - policy - 11/01/2014 04:29:34 AM 1508 Views
I'll be looking forward to Sunday then. - 11/01/2014 05:21:57 AM 1341 Views
Sounds good to me too. - 11/01/2014 05:41:38 AM 1820 Views
Re: Sounds good to me too. - 11/01/2014 10:14:16 AM 1347 Views
Hooray, I can kill people just by wishing! *NM* - 12/01/2014 03:03:49 AM 951 Views
I am certain you will not use that power for evil... *NM* - 12/01/2014 05:09:11 AM 1056 Views
RBIRL - 11/01/2014 07:32:49 AM 1543 Views
Re: VNTL/modkill notes - policy - 11/01/2014 10:19:41 AM 1512 Views
Re: VNTL/modkill notes - policy - 11/01/2014 10:25:16 AM 1439 Views
Modkill - Yunalesca - 12/01/2014 09:04:40 PM 1833 Views
So... - 13/01/2014 12:57:58 AM 1898 Views
Re: So... - 13/01/2014 07:54:26 AM 1531 Views
EBWOP. - 13/01/2014 08:00:13 AM 1432 Views
Dwarves and possibly a vampire. - 13/01/2014 07:48:09 PM 1428 Views
They're identifiably foreigners. - 13/01/2014 10:05:08 PM 1901 Views
Not strictly true - 14/01/2014 08:55:57 AM 1481 Views
Re: Not strictly true - 14/01/2014 09:07:41 AM 1544 Views
I trust Isaac enough to think it was not a mistake. - 15/01/2014 02:44:40 AM 1307 Views
This is a reminder that someone stole my necklace and I'm still annoyed about that *NM* - 14/01/2014 06:30:39 PM 1045 Views
I'm still annoyed at having my wizard hat stolen too. - 15/01/2014 06:43:41 AM 1407 Views
Agreed, there are enough things left open. - 15/01/2014 03:24:29 PM 1504 Views
This reminds me: did anybody else get anything stolen? - 15/01/2014 03:25:21 PM 1555 Views
Re: This reminds me: did anybody else get anything stolen? - 15/01/2014 07:59:27 PM 1431 Views
I agree, those are the most likely candidates. - 16/01/2014 02:47:05 PM 1847 Views
Problem with that is that the known characters in this game are all recurrent. - 16/01/2014 09:05:38 PM 1540 Views
WIZARD. They're called WIZARDS. GOD *NM* - 17/01/2014 01:59:42 PM 1059 Views
Witches also exist in Discworld. *NM* - 17/01/2014 02:10:24 PM 836 Views
Another point of order- no idea who left me feeling drained last night - 16/01/2014 03:04:54 PM 1780 Views
Even though we have some discussion, we're still not going forward. - 19/01/2014 09:12:56 PM 1420 Views
I really see no reason to believe everybody else loses if the Watch wins. - 19/01/2014 10:07:52 PM 1739 Views
Re: Even though we have some discussion, we're still not going forward. - 20/01/2014 02:03:11 PM 1525 Views
I never fully got over the cancelation of Buffy and Angel *NM* - 20/01/2014 04:00:03 PM 1085 Views
Re: Even though we have some discussion, we're still not going forward. - 20/01/2014 10:51:15 PM 1463 Views
So... how are things with everybody? Doin good? *NM* - 23/01/2014 03:18:07 PM 1098 Views
Day Deadline Monday Night, the 27th *NM* - 23/01/2014 03:38:20 PM 979 Views
Day Deadline Monday Night, the 27th *NM* - 23/01/2014 03:44:34 PM 981 Views
Vote: Praziquantel *NM* - 23/01/2014 07:14:04 PM 815 Views
I'm not disagreeing, but what's your reasoning? *NM* - 24/01/2014 03:39:51 PM 997 Views
What's been discussed already. - 24/01/2014 11:29:45 PM 1454 Views
Well, you know my reasoning - 24/01/2014 10:11:56 PM 1303 Views
And this is what I was waiting for. - 24/01/2014 10:48:16 PM 1833 Views
Vote: Praziquantel - 25/01/2014 09:30:54 PM 1403 Views
And here you are again. - 26/01/2014 06:52:21 AM 1742 Views
This is enought for me. Vote:ranagrande *NM* - 26/01/2014 11:38:42 AM 845 Views
I am a little surprised by your strong defense of Praz - 26/01/2014 07:18:45 PM 1446 Views
Re: I am a little surprised by your strong defense of Praz - 26/01/2014 10:30:31 PM 1809 Views
Then maybe I misinterpreted this: - 26/01/2014 11:37:08 PM 1407 Views
Wait let me try that again... - 26/01/2014 11:38:48 PM 1407 Views
Re: Then maybe I misinterpreted this: - 27/01/2014 02:49:59 AM 1704 Views
Okay fair enough. Unvote. *NM* - 27/01/2014 03:18:34 AM 885 Views
Hm, I think it might be too late to unvote - 27/01/2014 04:09:24 AM 1788 Views
He's right, I didn't check the time stamps - 27/01/2014 07:46:46 PM 1851 Views
Can we get an extension? - 26/01/2014 06:56:08 AM 1794 Views
Seconded. *NM* - 26/01/2014 11:39:05 AM 842 Views
granted - I'll leave it a bit non-specific for now *NM* - 26/01/2014 04:09:00 PM 968 Views
Thank you *NM* - 26/01/2014 07:05:45 PM 825 Views
VNTL is 4 at the moment - 26/01/2014 07:21:53 PM 1911 Views
Vote record Update 1 - 26/01/2014 07:35:43 PM 1836 Views
FT has also voted for ranagrande. *NM* - 26/01/2014 08:00:37 PM 884 Views
Thanks *NM* - 26/01/2014 08:02:13 PM 1049 Views
I demand blood! Also he's coming off a bit odd. Vote: Praziquantel *NM* - 27/01/2014 02:37:38 AM 1007 Views
Praziquantel has been lynched - 27/01/2014 07:49:45 PM 1803 Views
Twilight has begun - 28/01/2014 01:07:26 AM 1958 Views
Re: Twilight has begun - 28/01/2014 02:06:39 AM 1887 Views

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