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This is a flawed argument in two entirely separate and divergent ways. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 08/01/2014 01:49:27 AM

So problem 1:


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Stephen had access to a night kill.

He either got it from

a) Being a vampire

or

b) being a member of a faction


This is Mafia 33. I have 32 games to draw from for very concrete, very demonstrable examples of characters with a night kill that were neither a) a vampire nor b) a member of a faction.

It's not like "vigilante" or "serial killer" are even obscure roles or anything.

And problem 2:


View original post
Stephen had access to a night kill.

He either got it from

a) Being a vampire

or

b) being a member of a faction


If the Night Kill ability does not come from being part of a faction - and since her Watch faction ability wasn't revealed, it's almost certainly doesn't - then why should we be lynching vampires? Even if we were to accept your unfounded assumptions that every vampire has a Night Kill, how is that even relevant to anything? The town wins when the scum faction is eliminated, and the best evidence suggests that vampires are not the scum faction. They are currently the least suspect of all players here. And that fact is reason enough for any remaining vampires not to use any Night Kills they may or may not have because that would instantly lose them their best defence. What is it you wish to accomplish? I've never before seen a game with so much dedication to lynching a player because she is suspected of possibly being a vigilante. Hell, even when Isaac got the town to hunt a phantom Serial Killer instead of the mafia he wasn't this zealous about it, and I still immediately and correctly suspected him of being scum for it.

What is your objective in this game, beetnemesis? You've been chomping at the bit to get vampires lynched from Day 1, with less and less reason to do it. I'm very much entertaining the suspicion that you are the one who Night Killed Stephen because you simply hate vampires that much.

Would it make you feel better if the Watch investigated players to get a vampire registry? We can investigate players to discover their race or nationality, and I'm fine with tighter control over lethal actions. But really, I think even if they can, the vampires would have to be really stupid to try to night kill anybody right now.

The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Mafia 33: Discworld, Day 4 - A New Soap - 23/12/2013 02:05:56 PM 2164 Views
I was kind of hoping we had a Watch faction that would take out a Hippo tonight. - 23/12/2013 03:22:57 PM 1472 Views
I targeted a lot of people and don't know against whom I was successful or not. *NM* - 23/12/2013 11:47:29 PM 958 Views
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm *NM* - 24/12/2013 07:46:16 AM 892 Views
"a lot of people" and "don't know" the results - 24/12/2013 08:03:12 AM 1435 Views
You oughtn't be so surprised. - 24/12/2013 07:22:47 PM 1402 Views
Seems pretty consistent to me - 24/12/2013 07:40:33 PM 1549 Views
...it does? His last hypocop was "Did nothing so I could save Morale" - 24/12/2013 09:51:02 PM 1316 Views
Re: ...it does? His last hypocop was "Did nothing so I could save Morale" - 24/12/2013 10:15:41 PM 1340 Views
Re: Seems pretty consistent to me - 25/12/2013 04:09:14 AM 1402 Views
I'd like to know if you targetted me, as well. - 25/12/2013 02:17:25 PM 1516 Views
Did something happen to you? - 27/12/2013 03:45:20 AM 1413 Views
I believe so - 28/12/2013 12:58:24 AM 1430 Views
Well? Did you target me? I will make a statement immediately upon your answer. - 29/12/2013 03:52:17 AM 1268 Views
Why would I answer? - 29/12/2013 03:59:24 AM 1323 Views
Fine, then. Vote: Yunalesca - 30/12/2013 03:59:03 PM 1368 Views
Hmm - 01/01/2014 07:01:52 PM 1320 Views
I know people are reluctant to lynch "nice" vampires - 02/01/2014 02:44:47 PM 1458 Views
On the other hand... - 02/01/2014 06:15:48 PM 1403 Views
...you mean the one Night Kill victim we've had? - 02/01/2014 06:56:38 PM 1341 Views
So soap trumps night kill? - 04/01/2014 07:08:11 AM 1319 Views
Pretty sure I presented three reasons why I felt we should lynch Yuna - 04/01/2014 07:47:39 AM 1485 Views
Re: Pretty sure I presented three reasons why I felt we should lynch Yuna - 04/01/2014 06:58:57 PM 1499 Views
Short and sweet rebuttals - 04/01/2014 07:22:41 PM 1510 Views
My initial reaction... - 04/01/2014 10:47:11 PM 1353 Views
Re: Short and sweet rebuttals - 05/01/2014 03:37:18 AM 1392 Views
I say that a player likely attacking other players is a higher risk - 05/01/2014 02:37:40 PM 1310 Views
Not by your definition of "attacking", no. - 05/01/2014 06:08:49 PM 1400 Views
Re: Short and sweet rebuttals - 06/01/2014 05:24:43 AM 1487 Views
Re: Short and sweet rebuttals - 06/01/2014 05:51:20 AM 1430 Views
True, but there is no indication of a different group, is there? *NM* - 04/01/2014 07:37:15 PM 875 Views
Hmm. Apparentely my last post was not posted - 24/12/2013 07:58:55 AM 1403 Views
Fanatic-Templar - Not Guilty *NM* - 25/12/2013 10:18:51 AM 910 Views
Re: Hmm. Apparentely my last post was not posted - 25/12/2013 11:11:17 AM 1323 Views
At first I was like "Waah?", but then I noticed this... - 23/12/2013 09:08:16 PM 1482 Views
Hypocop Table - 25/12/2013 02:21:42 PM 1342 Views
Praziquantel - Not Guilty *NM* - 27/12/2013 04:58:14 AM 801 Views
FT not guilty *NM* - 27/12/2013 05:06:39 PM 937 Views
Re: Hypocop Table - 28/12/2013 04:12:15 PM 1496 Views
Bergioyn - Not Guilty - 02/01/2014 04:23:24 PM 1352 Views
Re: Mafia 33: Discworld, Day 4 - A New Soap - 30/12/2013 10:14:14 AM 1463 Views
Happy New Year! - 02/01/2014 02:37:51 PM 1380 Views
You too, I'll do my best. *NM* - 04/01/2014 07:35:03 PM 809 Views
Alright so hopefully this will get us to start talking/thinking again - 02/01/2014 09:45:23 PM 1700 Views
I'm guessing it's because of the RPS system - 03/01/2014 03:01:06 AM 1383 Views
What is your opinion of my vote towards Yuna? - 03/01/2014 03:04:16 AM 1367 Views
Yuna? Do you have any response to my accusation? *NM* - 07/01/2014 12:08:20 AM 785 Views
So, the promised roleclaim (most of it, at least). - 07/01/2014 03:48:16 AM 1477 Views
OK, so NOW do you concede that Stephen's NK was from being a vampire? - 07/01/2014 04:29:41 AM 1369 Views
? - 07/01/2014 07:38:55 AM 1300 Views
Hell, even if this weren't my own information... - 07/01/2014 08:35:33 AM 1435 Views
And furthermore... - 07/01/2014 08:41:11 AM 1398 Views
He had to get a NK from SOMEWHERE. And if you're dedicated to eliminating NKs... - 07/01/2014 08:54:38 PM 1489 Views
No. You do know what an individual role is, don't you? - 07/01/2014 10:06:16 PM 1440 Views
...what? - 07/01/2014 11:35:33 PM 1344 Views
This is a flawed argument in two entirely separate and divergent ways. - 08/01/2014 01:49:27 AM 1328 Views
Any "role" with a Night Kill would be incongruous - 08/01/2014 05:19:34 AM 1443 Views
Re: Any "role" with a Night Kill would be incongruous - 08/01/2014 07:25:04 AM 1526 Views
I'm just going off of what you're telling us about the Watch - 08/01/2014 02:17:25 PM 1410 Views
Re: I'm just going off of what you're telling us about the Watch - 08/01/2014 06:10:43 PM 1458 Views
How do you know we even have an undead faction? - 08/01/2014 04:28:16 PM 1231 Views
OK, this makes sense. - 07/01/2014 10:07:44 AM 1465 Views
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. - 07/01/2014 08:26:15 PM 1341 Views
Oh. Euhm. Wow - 08/01/2014 06:39:57 AM 1449 Views
Yeah, that was actually the first thing I asked about during the Night. - 08/01/2014 07:33:10 AM 1385 Views
Were you definitely blocked by the Watch? - 08/01/2014 02:45:17 PM 1503 Views
Re: Oh. Euhm. Wow - 08/01/2014 05:43:02 PM 1643 Views
Good work, F-T - 08/01/2014 05:40:41 PM 1714 Views
Re: Good work, F-T - 08/01/2014 06:09:56 PM 1485 Views
So... you want to lynch me, because I want to lynch scum? - 08/01/2014 08:50:26 PM 1345 Views
This only counts if your Victory conditions align with the Watch's - 09/01/2014 03:25:02 PM 1408 Views
Re: This only counts if your Victory conditions align with the Watch's - 09/01/2014 05:33:39 PM 1418 Views
Re: This only counts if your Victory conditions align with the Watch's - 09/01/2014 06:42:44 PM 1514 Views
Re: This only counts if your Victory conditions align with the Watch's - 10/01/2014 04:38:55 AM 1601 Views
Whaaaaaat. We're not nation-building, here. - 10/01/2014 06:04:16 AM 1457 Views
And why shouldn't they? - 10/01/2014 04:25:21 AM 1660 Views
What if Stephen wasn't the target? - 09/01/2014 03:11:38 PM 1409 Views
VNTL/modkill notes - policy - 11/01/2014 04:29:34 AM 1470 Views
I'll be looking forward to Sunday then. - 11/01/2014 05:21:57 AM 1302 Views
Sounds good to me too. - 11/01/2014 05:41:38 AM 1776 Views
Re: Sounds good to me too. - 11/01/2014 10:14:16 AM 1307 Views
Hooray, I can kill people just by wishing! *NM* - 12/01/2014 03:03:49 AM 929 Views
I am certain you will not use that power for evil... *NM* - 12/01/2014 05:09:11 AM 991 Views
RBIRL - 11/01/2014 07:32:49 AM 1501 Views
Re: VNTL/modkill notes - policy - 11/01/2014 10:19:41 AM 1470 Views
Re: VNTL/modkill notes - policy - 11/01/2014 10:25:16 AM 1394 Views
Modkill - Yunalesca - 12/01/2014 09:04:40 PM 1791 Views
So... - 13/01/2014 12:57:58 AM 1856 Views
Re: So... - 13/01/2014 07:54:26 AM 1490 Views
EBWOP. - 13/01/2014 08:00:13 AM 1400 Views
Dwarves and possibly a vampire. - 13/01/2014 07:48:09 PM 1393 Views
They're identifiably foreigners. - 13/01/2014 10:05:08 PM 1858 Views
Not strictly true - 14/01/2014 08:55:57 AM 1446 Views
Re: Not strictly true - 14/01/2014 09:07:41 AM 1509 Views
I trust Isaac enough to think it was not a mistake. - 15/01/2014 02:44:40 AM 1264 Views
This is a reminder that someone stole my necklace and I'm still annoyed about that *NM* - 14/01/2014 06:30:39 PM 1022 Views
I'm still annoyed at having my wizard hat stolen too. - 15/01/2014 06:43:41 AM 1364 Views
Agreed, there are enough things left open. - 15/01/2014 03:24:29 PM 1462 Views
This reminds me: did anybody else get anything stolen? - 15/01/2014 03:25:21 PM 1518 Views
Re: This reminds me: did anybody else get anything stolen? - 15/01/2014 07:59:27 PM 1383 Views
I agree, those are the most likely candidates. - 16/01/2014 02:47:05 PM 1804 Views
Problem with that is that the known characters in this game are all recurrent. - 16/01/2014 09:05:38 PM 1499 Views
WIZARD. They're called WIZARDS. GOD *NM* - 17/01/2014 01:59:42 PM 1035 Views
Witches also exist in Discworld. *NM* - 17/01/2014 02:10:24 PM 813 Views
Another point of order- no idea who left me feeling drained last night - 16/01/2014 03:04:54 PM 1742 Views
Even though we have some discussion, we're still not going forward. - 19/01/2014 09:12:56 PM 1383 Views
I really see no reason to believe everybody else loses if the Watch wins. - 19/01/2014 10:07:52 PM 1701 Views
Re: Even though we have some discussion, we're still not going forward. - 20/01/2014 02:03:11 PM 1494 Views
I never fully got over the cancelation of Buffy and Angel *NM* - 20/01/2014 04:00:03 PM 1060 Views
Re: Even though we have some discussion, we're still not going forward. - 20/01/2014 10:51:15 PM 1430 Views
So... how are things with everybody? Doin good? *NM* - 23/01/2014 03:18:07 PM 1074 Views
Day Deadline Monday Night, the 27th *NM* - 23/01/2014 03:38:20 PM 959 Views
Day Deadline Monday Night, the 27th *NM* - 23/01/2014 03:44:34 PM 955 Views
Vote: Praziquantel *NM* - 23/01/2014 07:14:04 PM 792 Views
I'm not disagreeing, but what's your reasoning? *NM* - 24/01/2014 03:39:51 PM 974 Views
What's been discussed already. - 24/01/2014 11:29:45 PM 1388 Views
Well, you know my reasoning - 24/01/2014 10:11:56 PM 1258 Views
And this is what I was waiting for. - 24/01/2014 10:48:16 PM 1792 Views
Vote: Praziquantel - 25/01/2014 09:30:54 PM 1347 Views
And here you are again. - 26/01/2014 06:52:21 AM 1694 Views
This is enought for me. Vote:ranagrande *NM* - 26/01/2014 11:38:42 AM 817 Views
I am a little surprised by your strong defense of Praz - 26/01/2014 07:18:45 PM 1407 Views
Re: I am a little surprised by your strong defense of Praz - 26/01/2014 10:30:31 PM 1767 Views
Then maybe I misinterpreted this: - 26/01/2014 11:37:08 PM 1372 Views
Wait let me try that again... - 26/01/2014 11:38:48 PM 1363 Views
Re: Then maybe I misinterpreted this: - 27/01/2014 02:49:59 AM 1668 Views
Okay fair enough. Unvote. *NM* - 27/01/2014 03:18:34 AM 863 Views
Hm, I think it might be too late to unvote - 27/01/2014 04:09:24 AM 1710 Views
He's right, I didn't check the time stamps - 27/01/2014 07:46:46 PM 1783 Views
Can we get an extension? - 26/01/2014 06:56:08 AM 1753 Views
Seconded. *NM* - 26/01/2014 11:39:05 AM 800 Views
granted - I'll leave it a bit non-specific for now *NM* - 26/01/2014 04:09:00 PM 944 Views
Thank you *NM* - 26/01/2014 07:05:45 PM 804 Views
VNTL is 4 at the moment - 26/01/2014 07:21:53 PM 1870 Views
Vote record Update 1 - 26/01/2014 07:35:43 PM 1799 Views
FT has also voted for ranagrande. *NM* - 26/01/2014 08:00:37 PM 861 Views
Thanks *NM* - 26/01/2014 08:02:13 PM 1023 Views
I demand blood! Also he's coming off a bit odd. Vote: Praziquantel *NM* - 27/01/2014 02:37:38 AM 985 Views
Praziquantel has been lynched - 27/01/2014 07:49:45 PM 1769 Views
Twilight has begun - 28/01/2014 01:07:26 AM 1911 Views
Re: Twilight has begun - 28/01/2014 02:06:39 AM 1849 Views

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