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Some (relatively spoiler free) thoughts Cannoli Send a noteboard - 18/12/2015 12:27:22 PM

If this feels a lot like the original Star Wars, it's because it is the exact same plot elements. Attractive rebel hero on a mission facing capture by stormtroopers and interrogation by a Dark Side villain, putting critical data into an astromech droid? Check.

Astromech droid wandering desert planet until recovered by scavengers by a young native? Check.

Over-the-top villains with a logic & science defying superweapon? Check.

Good guys infiltrating enemy base to rescue attractive captive, alerting Dark Side villain to the presence of a hero of the previous trilogy? Check.

Going after said superweapon with X-wings? Check.

I didn't have a problem with those things the first time, and I don't now. But for the sort of "fan" who gets all butt-hurt about a perceived lack of originality will have plenty of ammunition for their mouth-breathing Youtube rants.

One thing the prequels did was attempt to show that weapons changed and developed between trilogies. Apparently, space technology plateaus at the development of X-Wing and TIE fighters.

Another thing I didn't have a problem with in either trilogy was references to the political situations that motivated the Star Wars in question. But the geeks arouse in outrage over the use of the words "trade" and "taxes" in Phantom Menace, and this movie is completely free of anything resembling motivations. The villains do what they do because "evil". If you thought General Grievous should have a top hat, monocle and handle-bar mustache to make him fit the stereotypical villain image his character played into, you haven't seen anything next to the commanding general of the New Order.

As for the villains, Supreme Leader Snoke (Smoke? Stoke? ), basically just give vague orders at remove. Kylo Ren is probably the most contemptible Dark Side villain yet. He's not as intimidating as Vader or Maul, or as cool and commanding as Dooku or Palpatine, and except for one trick with the Force in his first scene, doesn't seem remotely as powerful as any of them. He's the Dark Side equivalent of Luke Skywalker, and would whine about picking up power converters from Toshi Station, if that was on his agenda. And there's a good reason for that. He's quite obviously set up to be this series' heir to Vader/Annikin as the personification of, and the battleground for, the struggle between the Dark Side and the Light, and many of the same qualities that made Annikin both susceptible to the allure of the other side, and so unappealing, seem to exist in a form in Ren. As someone even notes, he has "too much Vader in him." But episode 3 Vader, not episode 4 Vader.

However, the qualities that make Kylo Ren less awesome and appealing (he's even physically unimpressive, visibly slender beneath his awkward robes that seem to force him into odd postures), also suggest vast potential for growth and development into a truly evil monster, putting Jabba, the Emperor and Vader to shame.

I was a bit bemused at the handling of his character. The internet is right in that he's not just the new Dark Sider created for this movie, like Maul or Dooku, and it's pretty clear that he has a secret, but it gets revealed fairly early on, before we ever get a scene of the returning original trilogy characters having to deal with his identity.

IDK what Mark is talking about with the Force. Aside from one trick that is not repeated, Kylo Ren is not particularly impressive, while Rey & Finn are a little too good with a lightsaber or Jedi mind tricks, making me agree with Han's exasperated "That's not how the Force works!"

The space battles were a bit lacking. JJ Abrams really seems to like taking space ships that had originally been only shown IN space, and making them maneuver in the atmosphere, and their aerial assaults are really neat, counting as this movie's new battle innovation, but the battles are on a much reduced scale, and they don't give much dog fighting. More time is spent on the over-matched protagonists' attempts to elude TIE fighters, than watching them go toe-to-toe with the X-wings.

As I mentioned above, there is nothing to explain what the war is about. There's just a New Order, which is evil, and uses Imperial hardware, and they are opposed by a Resistance which uses X-wings and is led by Leia, but where each side comes from or who is ostensibly in charge is completely up in the air. There is mention of a Senate and a Republic, and allusions to a government which supports the Resistance, but no mention of why a government doesn't have a military, which is pretty much the sine qua non of a "government", or if they do, what that military is actually doing, while the Resistance undertakes to confront the New Order. BUT they didn't mention taxes or trade or diplomatic missions in the first act, so at least the movie isn't RUINED!!!!

Also, Rey's accent. WTF? British accents are for officers and Jedi. Period. Not scavengers on remote desert planets. Unless they are a Jedi who moved there for a specific purpose. Which she isn't.

Han & Leia's relationship is handled very well, with a near-lifetime of changes alluded to, which are realistic, true to their old characters, and don't bog down this movie. This is Rey's & Finn's story from here on out, with Poe & BD as their supporting cast. Luke, Han & Leia are just here to be mentors, teachers and enabling authority figures, and that's a good thing. Unlike Harrison Ford's last attempt to pass the torch of one of his franchises to a new generation, this hits the right notes, makes his relationship with the youngsters believable and true to character, and gives him protegees we can get behind. He's great in this film, but if he had a hat, we would not resent Finn or Rey putting it on in the closing scene.

And you know all the problems I mentioned above? THEY DON"T MATTER! It's STAR WARS! It doesn't, in my opinion, feel like the original trilogy, but it doesn't HAVE to, because it's not. I remember being vaguely dissatisfied in the same fashion with Phantom Menace, until going back and watching it again made the feelings grow on me, until I could feel like it was Star Wars again. Abrams has clearly put his stamp on this (for instance, Bad Robot veterans Greg Grunberg & Ken Leung have cameos as Resistance officers), with his style of "space"ship fighting and nods to the original work, but it's not as pandering as Star Trek was, and the franchise itself is a better fit for his brand of remakes than Star Trek. The old TV show was more about character stuff and exploration of new things, rather than action-packed battles against Klingons, Romulans and Space Captain America. Star Wars IS action-packed battles against stormtroopers and TIE fighters, and recruiting idealistic young people from the desert. It's about lightsaber fights and villains who openly proclaim their allegiance to evil, and care as much about being evil and doing evil, as good guys care about doing good. This might be the first ever mainstream blockbuster movie, where the villain worries that he's not evil enough, and how can he be more evil and live up to the example of his role model!

And now, the EU is not only no longer canon, it has now been officially overwritten. I don't miss it at all. I didn't realize until now, after reading two dozen books in the Legacy and Fate series, how much I missed Chewie, or how little I enjoyed seeing a bunch of hack pastiche writers insert their personal creations into Star Wars to crap all over Luke and Han. Sure, we've got a bunch of new characters not created by Lucas, but they damn well respect the OT folks. Kylo Ren doesn't snark about one-upping Vader by covering exhaust ports, he reveres Vader's legacy and feels inadequate to live up to it. Rey & Finn don't win the awe and admiration of Luke & Han & Leia with their prowess, their eyes light up at the mention of their names or allusions to their past events.

Sorry, Timothy Zahn, Troy Denning, and Christie Golden. You'll have to make your living coming up with new ideas now. And fuck you six ways to Sunday, with a cross-bladed lightsaber all the way up whatever orifices you do or don't excrete your prose out of, Kevin Anderson & Michael Stackpole! Your excerable Sandersonian abominations NEVER HAPPENED! Star Wars is back, and it's STAR WARS, not a setting for you guys to dick around with in absence of original (or good) ideas! I think I now understand a little bit of what it feels like to get out of a toxic or abusive relationship, and hook up with a much better person, who drives home by comparison, just what degree of crap you'd been stupidly putting up with all this time.

I can't wait to see it on Monday to firm up by opinion, figure out what exactly some people's names are, catch the occasional bit of dialogue I lost under British accents or audio FX and see how well it stands up a second time. I have every confidence in this one. Also, I have every confidence the geek community on the internet is going to take the rather irrelevant-to-a-good-story issues I raised above and run with them. The rise of the superhero motion picture & TV show, done right, has shown just how full of crap the geek community is. I have every confidence "The Force Awakens" is the first step on the road to reclaiming Star Wars from the whiners and posers who can fixate so hard on a kids' movie franchise, with absolutely no ability to actually enjoy it.

BTW, do you realize that Leia is now technically a Disney Princess? Which retroactively ends every debate on their relative merits. Ariel's seashells, Mulan's warrior prowess, or their associations, whether Jasmine's taste for slumming with criminals, Cinderella's elderly supernatural savior, or Snow White's creepy little unhuman friends, and whatever other qualities you want to praise those cartoon girls for...Leia did it better. Period.

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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Star Wars : The Force Awakens review (spoiler free) - 17/12/2015 09:18:26 AM 2067 Views
Love your review! I'm seeing it tomorrow night at 9pm. Can't wait! *NM* - 18/12/2015 01:20:16 AM 654 Views
Some (relatively spoiler free) thoughts - 18/12/2015 12:27:22 PM 1126 Views
I pretty much agree with most of that. - 18/12/2015 01:05:16 PM 1082 Views
Agreed, Driver did a great job..... - 19/12/2015 05:46:44 AM 931 Views
Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 03:04:37 PM 1015 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 04:35:49 PM 858 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 05:51:29 PM 894 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 04:44:36 AM 911 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 07:37:39 PM 909 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 19/12/2015 05:30:13 PM 933 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 20/12/2015 09:51:22 AM 1081 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 21/12/2015 06:31:54 PM 1242 Views
The books... - 21/12/2015 09:05:28 PM 986 Views
Re: The books... - 22/12/2015 03:12:52 AM 931 Views
In general agreement ** potential Spoilers ** - 19/12/2015 06:06:23 AM 891 Views
There are books? - 19/12/2015 11:19:07 AM 952 Views
Re: There are books? - 19/12/2015 05:41:45 PM 1005 Views
So Darth Plagieus might still be in? Sweet. - 20/12/2015 04:44:21 AM 869 Views
Palpatine's master? - 20/12/2015 02:25:45 PM 866 Views
I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 09:47:16 PM 901 Views
Re: I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 10:05:49 PM 987 Views
Yeah, I think we're talking about the same one. - 24/12/2015 12:05:57 AM 876 Views
Journey to Star Wars: The Force Awakens - 19/12/2015 06:07:16 PM 969 Views
I don't think any of that had to be explained. - 19/12/2015 12:16:07 PM 859 Views
I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 19/12/2015 08:22:21 PM 977 Views
Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 06:04:43 AM 1039 Views
Re: Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 08:06:40 PM 841 Views
Re: I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 20/12/2015 10:07:36 AM 947 Views
Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:00:32 PM 1107 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:11:30 PM 987 Views
You're making me reply to two posts - 18/12/2015 03:29:23 PM 978 Views
The death (spoilers) - 22/12/2015 10:30:05 PM 932 Views
Re: You're making me reply to two posts - 29/12/2015 05:24:39 AM 967 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 29/12/2015 05:19:54 AM 910 Views
I have tickets for tonight - 18/12/2015 04:47:17 PM 946 Views
Arbrams impressed me(spoiler free) - 19/12/2015 05:17:42 AM 1043 Views
'Revenge of the Sith' (3rd prequel) was actually a decent movie - 18/12/2015 10:46:52 PM 967 Views
They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 18/12/2015 11:38:36 PM 919 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 12:19:10 AM 1027 Views
Well - 19/12/2015 05:53:56 AM 868 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 07:46:06 AM 1079 Views
people forget they were kids movies *NM* - 19/12/2015 01:17:10 AM 636 Views
Yeah, people take the whole 'Star Wars' thing too seriously - 19/12/2015 02:59:29 AM 981 Views
BTW, Daniel Craig is totally forgiven for Spectre. He was a Stormtrooper (spoilers for role) - 18/12/2015 11:40:44 PM 877 Views
Yip that's true *NM* - 19/12/2015 07:46:59 AM 613 Views
And Simon Pegg was the alien who ran the trading post Rey always went to *NM* - 20/12/2015 02:30:59 PM 715 Views
I got the impression he was actually her boss or contractor - 28/12/2015 12:48:48 PM 1027 Views
Pretty much... - 29/12/2015 12:08:58 AM 934 Views
Absolutely, yes *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:54:52 PM 670 Views
Just saw it! Holy shit, shit, shit, shit.....it was amazing. - 19/12/2015 05:38:44 AM 932 Views
Loved it (Spoilers) - 19/12/2015 06:16:54 AM 883 Views
Fantastic characters, great entertainment, no originality, no logic - 29/12/2015 03:33:43 AM 921 Views
Your Mom has no originality or logic! *NM* - 29/12/2015 11:39:41 AM 662 Views
JJ Abrams should be able to do better than my Mom - 30/12/2015 04:20:54 AM 848 Views
I gave it a B+ overall but I think the characters are its weak spot - 29/12/2015 05:08:15 PM 784 Views
JJ Abrams' movies are character-driven, Lucas' movies are plot-driven - 30/12/2015 04:38:49 AM 833 Views
Lucas has created some of the most iconics chacters in movie history ? - 31/12/2015 02:29:02 PM 855 Views
So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 10:11:01 AM 931 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 07:10:56 PM 1261 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 09:24:08 PM 890 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 31/12/2015 04:58:24 PM 847 Views
It was fun, and I look forward to the next ones, but can't say I was that wowed. - 30/12/2015 09:26:10 PM 876 Views
Why is time for female lead and why does the lef think subtraction is the answer to inequality? - 04/01/2016 01:37:37 PM 719 Views
Because the six other movies had zero female Jedis of any importance? - 04/01/2016 05:58:25 PM 940 Views
Just another check the box movie, then - 04/01/2016 06:02:41 PM 816 Views
Oh, come on. You're really going to complain just because they had a woman and a black guy? - 04/01/2016 11:48:52 PM 891 Views
They are talking abou tmakin ght Gunslinger black - 05/01/2016 02:05:36 PM 852 Views
Yeah, Star Wars is just part of the larger trend. It can't be viewed in a vacuum (pun intended). - 05/01/2016 02:38:34 PM 813 Views
That's not really what I said, you'll note. - 05/01/2016 07:48:08 PM 1018 Views
I don't think it was Disney's business acumen. - 06/01/2016 06:59:46 PM 1086 Views
Wow. That's... sad. - 06/01/2016 09:32:37 PM 938 Views
Re: Wow. That's... sad. - 08/01/2016 03:08:58 AM 922 Views
I am noit sure how well that 7-12 girl demographic will work in merchandising - 08/01/2016 06:30:47 PM 916 Views
Your premise is entirely wrong. - 12/01/2016 05:53:26 AM 848 Views
Actually, they do have a major character who is Latino. - 12/01/2016 07:15:31 PM 867 Views
The culture wars are just about blacks and feminists. - 13/01/2016 02:31:20 AM 900 Views
All that Paul said - 17/01/2016 05:13:59 PM 1488 Views
LOL - 05/01/2016 06:33:50 PM 856 Views
Funny that people use strwmen arguments to make themsleves feel smart - 08/01/2016 04:22:22 PM 929 Views
It's not a straw man - 08/01/2016 04:52:03 PM 901 Views
it was story of a father and son so it makes sense to male leads - 04/01/2016 06:59:33 PM 772 Views
Male leads, sure, but it wasn't just the leads. - 04/01/2016 11:28:12 PM 910 Views
Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 05/01/2016 05:55:51 PM 883 Views
I don't see how it makes sense to compare their roles, but Finn is certainly plenty strong. - 05/01/2016 07:38:05 PM 879 Views
Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 02:52:58 PM 859 Views
Re: Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 05:50:08 PM 877 Views
I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 02:49:44 PM 864 Views
Re: I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 03:26:34 PM 906 Views
The reall issue it looks like Luke sucked as Jedi master - 07/01/2016 07:14:31 PM 842 Views
Sorry, no. - 06/01/2016 06:56:09 PM 919 Views
What a load of crap. - 08/01/2016 10:29:35 AM 828 Views
I only partially agree - 08/01/2016 03:27:10 PM 876 Views
Sorry if science isn't your thing but no what I said is true - 09/01/2016 11:49:15 PM 995 Views
Re: Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 08/01/2016 10:01:16 AM 791 Views
Well said *NM* - 05/01/2016 12:01:25 PM 676 Views
Because it isn't "subtraction"... - 08/01/2016 09:33:24 AM 848 Views
Of course it is - 09/01/2016 10:19:53 PM 819 Views
Okay so about the big bad guy *spoilers* - 05/01/2016 06:27:37 PM 906 Views
I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:07:26 PM 908 Views
Re: I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:42:42 PM 830 Views
What speaks against is for me... - 05/01/2016 10:57:44 PM 1243 Views
Re: What speaks against is for me... - 06/01/2016 10:08:35 AM 975 Views
It's all good stuff, like the first book in a good sci-fi/fantasy trilogy! - 07/01/2016 06:44:45 AM 951 Views
I think it's pretty obvious... - 17/01/2016 07:43:19 AM 944 Views

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