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I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) DomA Send a noteboard - 19/12/2015 08:22:21 PM

Overall I thought Abrams/Kasdan pulled off a really good and definitely most entertaining space opera. I mean, it was really fun to watch.

I have some issues that maybe will be smoothed out by more viewings, or not.

I went spoiler free (I knew about the general premise of the First Order vs. a "Resistance" and deduced a few things from the trailers, but that's it), and with Kasdan at the helm I was expecting to be surprised and even pleasantly shocked, much like I was with ESB (and ROTJ). Being surprised by where the story went was always a big aspect of SW for me. But my big surprise turned out to be how unsurprising the movie was, almost from start to finish, and my biggest shock was how safe they've chosen to play it. Not all the surprises in SW were good ones (especially in the prequels) but with this new chapter with a few exceptions there wasn't any. It feels a lot, too much I think, like the OT with more modern cinematography, and the script cannibalize dANH's to a surprising degree.

Some of that was expected as Star Wars always had a symphonic structure, with the episodes being built of variants on the same themes and ingredients (parallels, echoes, variations, mirror effects etc.) - in fact I was afraid that Abrams might throw that down the drain, not go a bit too far in the opposite direction...

With GL it was for the most part never particularly subtle, but on the whole Lucas and his writers managed to keep it fresh, in part because Lucas mastered the mythology behind the plot and archetypal characters. It wasn't always good, but it didn't feel like recycling.

With the new episode though... it feels more like Abrams/Kasdan have re-arranged the partition for new instruments rather than have the courage to write a genuine new movement for the symphony.

My hope was that Kasdan, being a better writer would pull off better than Lucas did the challenge of throwing us into a different era of the GFFA, with new issues and settings, with new characters beside the old ones in secondary roles - and still make it feel like SW. Lucas did manage well to offer a SW world radically different than the OT, but he wasn't as successful at preserving the fun/goofy aspect of the OT. I was disappointed that Kasdan opted for 2-hour of fan service instead, giving the audience was they expected without much effort put on inventing something new for the sequel era that we didn't know yet we'd love to see. It's a great script, and it's a great movie, but with no risk taking whatsoever. Lucas took huge risks (knowingly, he anticipated the backlash even before TPM came out) and went against expectations, stubbornly stayed on track despite criticism from the fan base. He partly succeeded, partly failed, but TFA did not even try... it removed from the saga all the irritants from the prequels then essentially remade ANH with bits of ESB/ROTJ thrown in.

Anyway... concretely my main gripes are with the recycling of the "fallen Jedi" story line and the "kid found on a desert planet" story line. I was hoping that Kasdan/Abrams would find another way to continue the family saga, as between Anakin's rise and fall and redemption and Luke's arc it seems to me the circle was complete and all that truly is interesting in that story has already been used. To make it worse, they also seemed to recycle Palpatine, given Kylo Ren a big boss of the "puppeteer" type.

They might still surprise me in the next episodes if they've decided to go the route of "let's start in the very familiar before going elsewhere altogether", but I'll keep my expectations low. I hope at least they're not intending to offer us another "redemption" act with Kylo Ren, and I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of the writers who will have to come up with a convincing backstory to explain how the son of Leia Organa and nephew of Luke Skywalker, could possibly end up worshipping Darth Vader and ignoring his redemption, strive to continue his Sith legacy... For now we know Ben had daddy issues and appears psychologically/emotionally unstable, but still...

The only good clue comes from Adam Driver, who says that Kylo Ren doesn't see himself as evil but as doing the right thing. I suppose he became convinced somehow that the Jedi were always evil and responsible for the war and chaos (the old lies spread by Palpatine, rejected by the Rebellion born of people who knew better like Bail Organa) and Luke and Leia are not heroes but the villains that destroyed Vader's cause and legacy and maybe who went as far as pretending to Kylo that Vader betrayed the Sith in the end (clearly either Kylo doesn't know or more likely does not believe this to be true), but that still doesn't explain how Ben Solo could become so deluded about what really happened, nor why he would grow to hate his family and all they stand for so much that he would make his mission to destroy them and what they fought for all their lives. We can surmise he was not exactly raised in circles very sympathetic to imperial propaganda... We'll see what they come up with, but I'm skeptical it won't disappoint.

Another hope is that they won't recycle for Rey the "dangers of being seduced to the Dark Side" arc. We've seen both sides more than enough already. Could we move on to other angles for the Dark vs. Light conflict, please? Another hope for Rey is that she won't turn out to have been "hidden for her own safety" by her loving family. I'm hoping Maz had it right that those she was waiting for would never come back to Jakku for her, that she was either abandoned there by someone who feared her emerging powers (and thus she's probably not a Skywalker) or else that if she's Luke's daughter she is believed to have been killed in the attack on his "academy" but in fact was kidnapped and abandoned on Jakku by a younger Kylo Ren who didn't have the balls to simply kill the little girl.

The other source of disappointment/irritation was the serious lack of exposition to put the movie in a larger context. As you point out Cannoli, that's probably motivated largely by the PT. Even ANH had more context than this, and it wasn't a lot. It wouldn't have taken much more either in TFA to put a bit of meat on the bone and make the context more enjoyable (and make it feel less confusing/simplistic).

From what I understand, a year or so after Endor and the death of Palpatine, the main remnants of the Empire were soundly defeated on Jakku and the disunited remnants scattered to the outer regions, while at the core a New Republic rose. Eventually Snoke managed to regroup enough imperial remnants to resurrect the Empire's mission as The First Order, as a rival entity to the Republic, but not yet at war with it.

I'm not sure where the "Resistance" is coming from, though. Why aren't they the Republic's military? Why is that movement openly opposed to the First Order so small? When did it start? Why is someone like Leia at the head of the resistance instead of part of the Republic? Is the Resistance purely a continuation of a rebellion that never shed the arms, or is it a rebirth after years when the rebellion no longer existed?

My guess for now is that the Rebels and their allies founded the New Republic after the "final" defeat of the Empire, and that the Resistance is a new movement born out of the New Republic many years after Endor, either in response to the apparition on the scene of the First Order and its dark sider Snoke or maybe even linked to the slaughter of Luke's students, which might have happened at the same time as the First Order became openly hostile after years of "cold war", and their hostilty might have been triggered by Luke's attempt to resurrect the Jedi Order.

I can only guess that the New Republic might have been hoping to be left out of the conflict with by refusing to declare war proactively against the First Order, hoping to co-exist in peace - and then a group of opponents centered on Leia Organa and a bunch of old Rebel leaders like Ackbar founded the Resistance to oppose the FO, without official support from the Republic, and with minimal resources. That would make the Republic as stupid and blind as the Old one, if not worse... but hopefully with one of their systems wiped out by the FO the Republic will now join the war.


All that said, for the most part Abrams and Kasdan pulled it off. The new characters are fun. I'm on the fence with Rey, as I'm not quite yet sure how she'll differ from Luke, Obi-Wan and Anakin in the role of the "Jedi apprentice" (with bits of Padmé thrown in) and they've really not helped it by making her an orphan on a desert planet... But we'll see. For now let's say that in an all too familiar role the actress was quite good, and now it's a matter of giving her a good arc. Finn was fun, mixing a bit of Luke with just a bit of Jar-Jar's goofiness and cowardice. Poe left me a bit colder as a kind of mix of Han and Leia. I could have done without Kylo being yet another fallen Jedi and Leia's son, but Adam Driver is great and the character has a lot of potential. I'm eager to see where they'll be going with Luke, and to discover more about the circumstances of how and why he tried to bring back the Jedi Order, and why the fall of Ben Solo led him to vanish. What was he trying to achieve, put an end to the war because his own efforts to bring back the Jedi Order was the cause of the First Order's attack in the first place? It sounds a bit like a foolish move, given that the other side is lead by dark siders...




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Star Wars : The Force Awakens review (spoiler free) - 17/12/2015 09:18:26 AM 2079 Views
Love your review! I'm seeing it tomorrow night at 9pm. Can't wait! *NM* - 18/12/2015 01:20:16 AM 658 Views
Some (relatively spoiler free) thoughts - 18/12/2015 12:27:22 PM 1138 Views
I pretty much agree with most of that. - 18/12/2015 01:05:16 PM 1093 Views
Agreed, Driver did a great job..... - 19/12/2015 05:46:44 AM 944 Views
Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 03:04:37 PM 1026 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 04:35:49 PM 869 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 05:51:29 PM 905 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 04:44:36 AM 925 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 07:37:39 PM 924 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 19/12/2015 05:30:13 PM 945 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 20/12/2015 09:51:22 AM 1092 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 21/12/2015 06:31:54 PM 1255 Views
The books... - 21/12/2015 09:05:28 PM 1001 Views
Re: The books... - 22/12/2015 03:12:52 AM 945 Views
In general agreement ** potential Spoilers ** - 19/12/2015 06:06:23 AM 904 Views
There are books? - 19/12/2015 11:19:07 AM 964 Views
Re: There are books? - 19/12/2015 05:41:45 PM 1019 Views
So Darth Plagieus might still be in? Sweet. - 20/12/2015 04:44:21 AM 881 Views
Palpatine's master? - 20/12/2015 02:25:45 PM 881 Views
I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 09:47:16 PM 913 Views
Re: I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 10:05:49 PM 998 Views
Yeah, I think we're talking about the same one. - 24/12/2015 12:05:57 AM 891 Views
Journey to Star Wars: The Force Awakens - 19/12/2015 06:07:16 PM 978 Views
I don't think any of that had to be explained. - 19/12/2015 12:16:07 PM 873 Views
I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 19/12/2015 08:22:21 PM 986 Views
Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 06:04:43 AM 1053 Views
Re: Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 08:06:40 PM 855 Views
Re: I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 20/12/2015 10:07:36 AM 959 Views
Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:00:32 PM 1115 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:11:30 PM 998 Views
You're making me reply to two posts - 18/12/2015 03:29:23 PM 991 Views
The death (spoilers) - 22/12/2015 10:30:05 PM 945 Views
Re: You're making me reply to two posts - 29/12/2015 05:24:39 AM 986 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 29/12/2015 05:19:54 AM 928 Views
I have tickets for tonight - 18/12/2015 04:47:17 PM 956 Views
Arbrams impressed me(spoiler free) - 19/12/2015 05:17:42 AM 1053 Views
'Revenge of the Sith' (3rd prequel) was actually a decent movie - 18/12/2015 10:46:52 PM 979 Views
They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 18/12/2015 11:38:36 PM 932 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 12:19:10 AM 1039 Views
Well - 19/12/2015 05:53:56 AM 882 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 07:46:06 AM 1089 Views
people forget they were kids movies *NM* - 19/12/2015 01:17:10 AM 641 Views
Yeah, people take the whole 'Star Wars' thing too seriously - 19/12/2015 02:59:29 AM 995 Views
BTW, Daniel Craig is totally forgiven for Spectre. He was a Stormtrooper (spoilers for role) - 18/12/2015 11:40:44 PM 889 Views
Yip that's true *NM* - 19/12/2015 07:46:59 AM 618 Views
And Simon Pegg was the alien who ran the trading post Rey always went to *NM* - 20/12/2015 02:30:59 PM 720 Views
I got the impression he was actually her boss or contractor - 28/12/2015 12:48:48 PM 1043 Views
Pretty much... - 29/12/2015 12:08:58 AM 943 Views
Absolutely, yes *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:54:52 PM 674 Views
Just saw it! Holy shit, shit, shit, shit.....it was amazing. - 19/12/2015 05:38:44 AM 944 Views
Loved it (Spoilers) - 19/12/2015 06:16:54 AM 897 Views
Fantastic characters, great entertainment, no originality, no logic - 29/12/2015 03:33:43 AM 934 Views
Your Mom has no originality or logic! *NM* - 29/12/2015 11:39:41 AM 665 Views
JJ Abrams should be able to do better than my Mom - 30/12/2015 04:20:54 AM 862 Views
I gave it a B+ overall but I think the characters are its weak spot - 29/12/2015 05:08:15 PM 793 Views
JJ Abrams' movies are character-driven, Lucas' movies are plot-driven - 30/12/2015 04:38:49 AM 849 Views
Lucas has created some of the most iconics chacters in movie history ? - 31/12/2015 02:29:02 PM 863 Views
So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 10:11:01 AM 942 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 07:10:56 PM 1273 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 09:24:08 PM 904 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 31/12/2015 04:58:24 PM 857 Views
It was fun, and I look forward to the next ones, but can't say I was that wowed. - 30/12/2015 09:26:10 PM 887 Views
Why is time for female lead and why does the lef think subtraction is the answer to inequality? - 04/01/2016 01:37:37 PM 728 Views
Because the six other movies had zero female Jedis of any importance? - 04/01/2016 05:58:25 PM 951 Views
Just another check the box movie, then - 04/01/2016 06:02:41 PM 826 Views
Oh, come on. You're really going to complain just because they had a woman and a black guy? - 04/01/2016 11:48:52 PM 910 Views
They are talking abou tmakin ght Gunslinger black - 05/01/2016 02:05:36 PM 862 Views
Yeah, Star Wars is just part of the larger trend. It can't be viewed in a vacuum (pun intended). - 05/01/2016 02:38:34 PM 824 Views
That's not really what I said, you'll note. - 05/01/2016 07:48:08 PM 1032 Views
I don't think it was Disney's business acumen. - 06/01/2016 06:59:46 PM 1100 Views
Wow. That's... sad. - 06/01/2016 09:32:37 PM 950 Views
Re: Wow. That's... sad. - 08/01/2016 03:08:58 AM 933 Views
I am noit sure how well that 7-12 girl demographic will work in merchandising - 08/01/2016 06:30:47 PM 927 Views
Your premise is entirely wrong. - 12/01/2016 05:53:26 AM 861 Views
Actually, they do have a major character who is Latino. - 12/01/2016 07:15:31 PM 881 Views
The culture wars are just about blacks and feminists. - 13/01/2016 02:31:20 AM 909 Views
All that Paul said - 17/01/2016 05:13:59 PM 1506 Views
LOL - 05/01/2016 06:33:50 PM 867 Views
Funny that people use strwmen arguments to make themsleves feel smart - 08/01/2016 04:22:22 PM 941 Views
It's not a straw man - 08/01/2016 04:52:03 PM 910 Views
it was story of a father and son so it makes sense to male leads - 04/01/2016 06:59:33 PM 781 Views
Male leads, sure, but it wasn't just the leads. - 04/01/2016 11:28:12 PM 921 Views
Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 05/01/2016 05:55:51 PM 893 Views
I don't see how it makes sense to compare their roles, but Finn is certainly plenty strong. - 05/01/2016 07:38:05 PM 891 Views
Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 02:52:58 PM 874 Views
Re: Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 05:50:08 PM 887 Views
I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 02:49:44 PM 875 Views
Re: I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 03:26:34 PM 921 Views
The reall issue it looks like Luke sucked as Jedi master - 07/01/2016 07:14:31 PM 852 Views
Sorry, no. - 06/01/2016 06:56:09 PM 931 Views
What a load of crap. - 08/01/2016 10:29:35 AM 845 Views
I only partially agree - 08/01/2016 03:27:10 PM 889 Views
Sorry if science isn't your thing but no what I said is true - 09/01/2016 11:49:15 PM 1005 Views
Re: Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 08/01/2016 10:01:16 AM 807 Views
Well said *NM* - 05/01/2016 12:01:25 PM 681 Views
Because it isn't "subtraction"... - 08/01/2016 09:33:24 AM 864 Views
Of course it is - 09/01/2016 10:19:53 PM 828 Views
Okay so about the big bad guy *spoilers* - 05/01/2016 06:27:37 PM 918 Views
I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:07:26 PM 920 Views
Re: I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:42:42 PM 842 Views
What speaks against is for me... - 05/01/2016 10:57:44 PM 1257 Views
Re: What speaks against is for me... - 06/01/2016 10:08:35 AM 988 Views
It's all good stuff, like the first book in a good sci-fi/fantasy trilogy! - 07/01/2016 06:44:45 AM 962 Views
I think it's pretty obvious... - 17/01/2016 07:43:19 AM 960 Views

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