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Re: Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 08/01/2016 10:01:16 AM

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Look at from this point of view. When the first move came out all the little boys went home wanting to be either Hans or Luke and al the little girls went home wanting to be Leia.

And we want a repeat of this? We want boys to only idolize men, and girls to only idolize women?
She was a strong confident women who has no problem speaking her mind and did not wait around waiting to be rescued by men but instead played her own critical role in the story. Hell she even stood up to the wookie tha had Finn cowering. No one would say the Leia took a back seat to Luke or Hans but the same cannot be said for Finn the sidekick. I guess in world of social justice girl power trumps racial equality but in the end little boys did not go home wanting to be Finn, they went home still wanting to be Luke.

Firstly, lets say this is true (though as Legolas argued, it doesn't really hold up)... what makes you think little boys can't go home wanting to be like Rey? Nothing about her role is fundamentally male or female anyway. Not even her costume. She just happens to be female. Her femininity doesn't permeate her story.

The problem people have had with the way Hollywood did this is that it was always a male in the lead. Its not that girls can't look up to male leads and idolize them. But when you only show men doing certain things, you set up the expectation that girls shouldn't bother with those activities.

As for helping the plight of women and minorities that is just flawed logic.

Indeed. No one is saying this will help the plight of women and minorities today. This is NOT a solution that has a current impact.
I fully support making a main character black, the original series did it to a degree.

Luke was black?
Of the major black characters in the series Finn, the former sanitation worker, is the weakest and I am not sure how making the black man the little buddy to the white girl helps minorities.

The idea that he's a "little buddy" is absurd. They're shown to be friends, not boss and underling. For another, if you truly don't get the cultural import of a friendship, and possible romantic relationship between a black man and white woman in which both are shown to be strong independent characters, I'm not sure you've been paying much attention to the narrative on such relationships in the United States.
I do object to the idea that new white characters can only be bad guys

The exact same thing was true of the Original Trilogy. The main heroes and villains were ALL White. This is just not true here, and I do hope they have people of color as villains too, but if you think the narrative of this story is "white men are always evil", neither Han Solo, nor Luke, or even Kylo Ren make any sense.
and need to look as much like Nazis as possible, make sure you zoom in on those blue eyes and blonde hair. I am sure that was no accident fro the Jewish Abrams.

Exactly one person can be accused of looking like a Nazi. And he reports to a quite non-human looking Supreme Leader.

The Nazi undertones to the Empire were always thee. Yes, it is a little ham handed that one of them now looks a little too Nazi, but that doesn't mean this Nazi parallel was invented from scratch.

The idea that portraying women as a match for men in close combat is not just misguided but it is down right stupid and has the exact opposite affect that is intended. In the real world when girls fight boys they get hurt and they can be hurt badly. Anything that makes it OK for a man to fight a women like she is a man does not help women and presenting women as equals to men in combat does exactly that.

You do know these things aren't fixed, right? There isn't some fundamental law of nature that makes human females on average weaker than human males, and the amount by which that differs isn't fixed either. If girls are pushed to develop their upper body strength from an early age, that WILL change.

No one is asking that we enforce some such program. But we should certainly be above the idea that girls SHOULDN'T do this. We shouldn't tag women who lift and increase their upper body strength as unfeminine. Or men who don't as emasculated. A character like Rey might, in some small way, encourage girls to try out activities that are traditionally reserved for "boys". Maybe a teenager will lift, or go rock climbing, or get sweaty at the gym, because Rey does some version of all that.

Have message but please keep the misguided social justice from running the story line. It is almost as bad the product marking driving the plot in the prequel.

There is nothing misguided about this, given that the Force has no gendered bias that we know of. And it certainly isn't anywhere close to Social Justice. It is, at best, not sticking to the ludicrous patriarchal assumption that males always lead.
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Star Wars : The Force Awakens review (spoiler free) - 17/12/2015 09:18:26 AM 1859 Views
Love your review! I'm seeing it tomorrow night at 9pm. Can't wait! *NM* - 18/12/2015 01:20:16 AM 509 Views
Some (relatively spoiler free) thoughts - 18/12/2015 12:27:22 PM 905 Views
I pretty much agree with most of that. - 18/12/2015 01:05:16 PM 901 Views
Agreed, Driver did a great job..... - 19/12/2015 05:46:44 AM 750 Views
Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 03:04:37 PM 824 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 04:35:49 PM 671 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 05:51:29 PM 705 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 04:44:36 AM 725 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 07:37:39 PM 712 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 19/12/2015 05:30:13 PM 752 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 20/12/2015 09:51:22 AM 891 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 21/12/2015 06:31:54 PM 1050 Views
The books... - 21/12/2015 09:05:28 PM 798 Views
Re: The books... - 22/12/2015 03:12:52 AM 745 Views
In general agreement ** potential Spoilers ** - 19/12/2015 06:06:23 AM 696 Views
There are books? - 19/12/2015 11:19:07 AM 753 Views
Re: There are books? - 19/12/2015 05:41:45 PM 813 Views
So Darth Plagieus might still be in? Sweet. - 20/12/2015 04:44:21 AM 701 Views
Palpatine's master? - 20/12/2015 02:25:45 PM 686 Views
I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 09:47:16 PM 707 Views
Re: I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 10:05:49 PM 799 Views
Yeah, I think we're talking about the same one. - 24/12/2015 12:05:57 AM 693 Views
Journey to Star Wars: The Force Awakens - 19/12/2015 06:07:16 PM 775 Views
I don't think any of that had to be explained. - 19/12/2015 12:16:07 PM 671 Views
I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 19/12/2015 08:22:21 PM 796 Views
Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 06:04:43 AM 840 Views
Re: Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 08:06:40 PM 653 Views
Re: I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 20/12/2015 10:07:36 AM 760 Views
Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:00:32 PM 887 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:11:30 PM 801 Views
You're making me reply to two posts - 18/12/2015 03:29:23 PM 751 Views
The death (spoilers) - 22/12/2015 10:30:05 PM 753 Views
Re: You're making me reply to two posts - 29/12/2015 05:24:39 AM 751 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 29/12/2015 05:19:54 AM 696 Views
I have tickets for tonight - 18/12/2015 04:47:17 PM 758 Views
Arbrams impressed me(spoiler free) - 19/12/2015 05:17:42 AM 860 Views
'Revenge of the Sith' (3rd prequel) was actually a decent movie - 18/12/2015 10:46:52 PM 771 Views
They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 18/12/2015 11:38:36 PM 751 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 12:19:10 AM 838 Views
Well - 19/12/2015 05:53:56 AM 700 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 07:46:06 AM 893 Views
people forget they were kids movies *NM* - 19/12/2015 01:17:10 AM 527 Views
Yeah, people take the whole 'Star Wars' thing too seriously - 19/12/2015 02:59:29 AM 800 Views
BTW, Daniel Craig is totally forgiven for Spectre. He was a Stormtrooper (spoilers for role) - 18/12/2015 11:40:44 PM 713 Views
Yip that's true *NM* - 19/12/2015 07:46:59 AM 490 Views
And Simon Pegg was the alien who ran the trading post Rey always went to *NM* - 20/12/2015 02:30:59 PM 580 Views
I got the impression he was actually her boss or contractor - 28/12/2015 12:48:48 PM 865 Views
Pretty much... - 29/12/2015 12:08:58 AM 765 Views
Absolutely, yes *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:54:52 PM 558 Views
Just saw it! Holy shit, shit, shit, was amazing. - 19/12/2015 05:38:44 AM 757 Views
Loved it (Spoilers) - 19/12/2015 06:16:54 AM 706 Views
Fantastic characters, great entertainment, no originality, no logic - 29/12/2015 03:33:43 AM 747 Views
Your Mom has no originality or logic! *NM* - 29/12/2015 11:39:41 AM 545 Views
JJ Abrams should be able to do better than my Mom - 30/12/2015 04:20:54 AM 651 Views
I gave it a B+ overall but I think the characters are its weak spot - 29/12/2015 05:08:15 PM 622 Views
JJ Abrams' movies are character-driven, Lucas' movies are plot-driven - 30/12/2015 04:38:49 AM 647 Views
Lucas has created some of the most iconics chacters in movie history ? - 31/12/2015 02:29:02 PM 703 Views
So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 10:11:01 AM 716 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 07:10:56 PM 1085 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 09:24:08 PM 687 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 31/12/2015 04:58:24 PM 675 Views
It was fun, and I look forward to the next ones, but can't say I was that wowed. - 30/12/2015 09:26:10 PM 662 Views
Why is time for female lead and why does the lef think subtraction is the answer to inequality? - 04/01/2016 01:37:37 PM 549 Views
Because the six other movies had zero female Jedis of any importance? - 04/01/2016 05:58:25 PM 754 Views
Just another check the box movie, then - 04/01/2016 06:02:41 PM 650 Views
Oh, come on. You're really going to complain just because they had a woman and a black guy? - 04/01/2016 11:48:52 PM 657 Views
They are talking abou tmakin ght Gunslinger black - 05/01/2016 02:05:36 PM 688 Views
Yeah, Star Wars is just part of the larger trend. It can't be viewed in a vacuum (pun intended). - 05/01/2016 02:38:34 PM 655 Views
That's not really what I said, you'll note. - 05/01/2016 07:48:08 PM 800 Views
I don't think it was Disney's business acumen. - 06/01/2016 06:59:46 PM 836 Views
Wow. That's... sad. - 06/01/2016 09:32:37 PM 728 Views
Re: Wow. That's... sad. - 08/01/2016 03:08:58 AM 748 Views
I am noit sure how well that 7-12 girl demographic will work in merchandising - 08/01/2016 06:30:47 PM 760 Views
Your premise is entirely wrong. - 12/01/2016 05:53:26 AM 662 Views
Actually, they do have a major character who is Latino. - 12/01/2016 07:15:31 PM 665 Views
The culture wars are just about blacks and feminists. - 13/01/2016 02:31:20 AM 719 Views
All that Paul said - 17/01/2016 05:13:59 PM 1027 Views
LOL - 05/01/2016 06:33:50 PM 680 Views
Funny that people use strwmen arguments to make themsleves feel smart - 08/01/2016 04:22:22 PM 718 Views
It's not a straw man - 08/01/2016 04:52:03 PM 696 Views
it was story of a father and son so it makes sense to male leads - 04/01/2016 06:59:33 PM 611 Views
Male leads, sure, but it wasn't just the leads. - 04/01/2016 11:28:12 PM 736 Views
Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 05/01/2016 05:55:51 PM 688 Views
I don't see how it makes sense to compare their roles, but Finn is certainly plenty strong. - 05/01/2016 07:38:05 PM 678 Views
Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 02:52:58 PM 657 Views
Re: Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 05:50:08 PM 686 Views
I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 02:49:44 PM 684 Views
Re: I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 03:26:34 PM 692 Views
The reall issue it looks like Luke sucked as Jedi master - 07/01/2016 07:14:31 PM 676 Views
Sorry, no. - 06/01/2016 06:56:09 PM 698 Views
What a load of crap. - 08/01/2016 10:29:35 AM 637 Views
I only partially agree - 08/01/2016 03:27:10 PM 700 Views
Sorry if science isn't your thing but no what I said is true - 09/01/2016 11:49:15 PM 747 Views
Re: Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 08/01/2016 10:01:16 AM 618 Views
Well said *NM* - 05/01/2016 12:01:25 PM 530 Views
Because it isn't "subtraction"... - 08/01/2016 09:33:24 AM 677 Views
Of course it is - 09/01/2016 10:19:53 PM 642 Views
Okay so about the big bad guy *spoilers* - 05/01/2016 06:27:37 PM 719 Views
I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:07:26 PM 717 Views
Re: I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:42:42 PM 666 Views
What speaks against is for me... - 05/01/2016 10:57:44 PM 1048 Views
Re: What speaks against is for me... - 06/01/2016 10:08:35 AM 771 Views
It's all good stuff, like the first book in a good sci-fi/fantasy trilogy! - 07/01/2016 06:44:45 AM 758 Views
I think it's pretty obvious... - 17/01/2016 07:43:19 AM 732 Views

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