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Replies and spoilers Sidious Send a noteboard - 18/12/2015 03:04:37 PM


If this feels a lot like the original Star Wars, it's because it is the exact same plot elements. Attractive rebel hero on a mission facing capture by stormtroopers and interrogation by a Dark Side villain, putting critical data into an astromech droid? Check.

Astromech droid wandering desert planet until recovered by scavengers by a young native? Check.


Well it was very similar to A New Hope... in many ways it felt like a tribute movie. Knowing Star Wars fans, they'd want something reminiscent of the past, and would complain if something else was delivered. You can never win with people.


Over-the-top villains with a logic & science defying superweapon? Check.

Nothing science-defying about it... suppose it could be made one day.


One thing the prequels did was attempt to show that weapons changed and developed between trilogies. Apparently, space technology plateaus at the development of X-Wing and TIE fighters.

I'm sorry if improving the Death Star by a factor of at least 10 was not sufficient scientifically. It's only been 30 years, not 30 millenia, and after the Empire fell the galaxy fell into relative anarchy. Scavenging the remnants is a consistent theme in the movie. I doubt people had the resources to invent new weapons when half of the Star Destroyers are belly up in the desert. But there were a few small things, like a stormtrooper who can fight against lightsabers.


Another thing I didn't have a problem with in either trilogy was references to the political situations that motivated the Star Wars in question. But the geeks arouse in outrage over the use of the words "trade" and "taxes" in Phantom Menace, and this movie is completely free of anything resembling motivations. The villains do what they do because "evil". If you thought General Grievous should have a top hat, monocle and handle-bar mustache to make him fit the stereotypical villain image his character played into, you haven't seen anything next to the commanding general of the New Order.

We don't know the back story or why Hux feels the way he does. The Republic has enemies and there is nothing wrong with people who want to exterminate them because they want to rule the galaxy. Considering Snoke is probably a Sith Lord, I think it's actually quite appropriate.


As for the villains, Supreme Leader Snoke (Smoke? Stoke? ), basically just give vague orders at remove. Kylo Ren is probably the most contemptible Dark Side villain yet. He's not as intimidating as Vader or Maul, or as cool and commanding as Dooku or Palpatine, and except for one trick with the Force in his first scene, doesn't seem remotely as powerful as any of them.

Probably because he's... 18! Maybe we should give the guy a bit of time to flesh out considering he's an apprentice in the truest sense of the word. There are more than hints that he's very new to the Dark Side. Isn't it nice to finally have a dark jedi whose journey we can follow instead of a mindless drone who dies at the end of each movie?


He's the Dark Side equivalent of Luke Skywalker, and would whine about picking up power converters from Toshi Station, if that was on his agenda. And there's a good reason for that. He's quite obviously set up to be this series' heir to Vader/Annikin as the personification of, and the battleground for, the struggle between the Dark Side and the Light, and many of the same qualities that made Annikin both susceptible to the allure of the other side, and so unappealing, seem to exist in a form in Ren. As someone even notes, he has "too much Vader in him." But episode 3 Vader, not episode 4 Vader.

He is the equivalent of Skywalker. It's pretty accurate that he's not well trained considering the Sith were finally exterminated and the dark side disappeared for decades. Who knows what Snoke is, but he's obviously only recently acquired Ren.


However, the qualities that make Kylo Ren less awesome and appealing (he's even physically unimpressive, visibly slender beneath his awkward robes that seem to force him into odd postures), also suggest vast potential for growth and development into a truly evil monster, putting Jabba, the Emperor and Vader to shame.

Finally, some insight.


IDK what Mark is talking about with the Force. Aside from one trick that is not repeated, Kylo Ren is not particularly impressive, while Rey & Finn are a little too good with a lightsaber or Jedi mind tricks, making me agree with Han's exasperated "That's not how the Force works!"

I'm not sure what else you want with Ren? He's at least as proficient with Force push/pull compared to Vader. He's got great mental skills and instincts. What's the problem?

The Rey thing could be a problem. Personally I didn't like it because it takes Jedi decades to learn the Force and master the sabre. However, it's also likely that she is a Force prodigy to balance the dark side. With that in mind she could be some sort of messiah, and thus unexpectedly skilled and powerful. There's also the fact that she might be Ren's sister or cousin, so there are many issues there.


The space battles were a bit lacking. JJ Abrams really seems to like taking space ships that had originally been only shown IN space, and making them maneuver in the atmosphere, and their aerial assaults are really neat, counting as this movie's new battle innovation, but the battles are on a much reduced scale, and they don't give much dog fighting. More time is spent on the over-matched protagonists' attempts to elude TIE fighters, than watching them go toe-to-toe with the X-wings.

I missed the capital class ships, and felt they were lacking. There were quite a few scenes with X-wings vs Tie Fighters. I think maybe more than in the originals? Thank goodness they got away from those horrific "ships" that Anakin and Kenobi used in Revenge of the Sith.


As I mentioned above, there is nothing to explain what the war is about. There's just a New Order, which is evil, and uses Imperial hardware, and they are opposed by a Resistance which uses X-wings and is led by Leia, but where each side comes from or who is ostensibly in charge is completely up in the air.

But why is this an issue when it's a trilogy? It's going to be revealed.


There is mention of a Senate and a Republic, and allusions to a government which supports the Resistance, but no mention of why a government doesn't have a military, which is pretty much the sine qua non of a "government", or if they do, what that military is actually doing, while the Resistance undertakes to confront the New Order. BUT they didn't mention taxes or trade or diplomatic missions in the first act, so at least the movie isn't RUINED!!!!

I assumed that the military was ruined along with 5 planets and about 500 billion people.


Also, Rey's accent. WTF? British accents are for officers and Jedi. Period. Not scavengers on remote desert planets. Unless they are a Jedi who moved there for a specific purpose. Which she isn't.

No no no... it was perfect. We want an educated Jedi knight who can speak well, like Luke, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gonn. God help us if we get another gung-ho cowboy with a lightsaber. We want the Queen's English, not the rebel perversion you people made. The popular theory is that Rey is Luke's daughter and he sent her to that planet after Ren killed all his students to protect her.


Han & Leia's relationship is handled very well, with a near-lifetime of changes alluded to, which are realistic, true to their old characters, and don't bog down this movie. This is Rey's & Finn's story from here on out, with Poe & BD as their supporting cast. Luke, Han & Leia are just here to be mentors, teachers and enabling authority figures, and that's a good thing. Unlike Harrison Ford's last attempt to pass the torch of one of his franchises to a new generation, this hits the right notes, makes his relationship with the youngsters believable and true to character, and gives him protegees we can get behind. He's great in this film, but if he had a hat, we would not resent Finn or Rey putting it on in the closing scene.

I agree with the relationships. Han is always good and he picked up the character nicely. I was disappointed that Leia was not Force trained. Luke alluded to her gaining his powers in RoTJ so I was expecting very basic stuff like telekinesis to make her life easier, or to guide Rey. I was sorry that she was skipped over completely. She also aged badly... there I said it, but Luke also looks haggard and I half expected her to drop money into a cup than learn the Force from him.


This might be the first ever mainstream blockbuster movie, where the villain worries that he's not evil enough, and how can he be more evil and live up to the example of his role model!

Cannoli get a grip. His grandfather was Darth Vader and he is afraid he won't live up to a legendary dark jedi. Is this the first man who ever felt that his family cast a big shadow that is difficult to live up to? He's also having a problem that is new and inexplicable in the series... the Light side is pulling him back.


And fuck you six ways to Sunday, with a cross-bladed lightsaber all the way up

I for one am glad that this cross-bladed sabre was shown to have purpose, as it received such shit from purists. I can imagine you rolling your eyes! Well Ren had the final laugh.


catch the occasional bit of dialogue I lost under British accents

So basically you haven't understood a thing that has ever come out of Alec Guinness' mouth?


BTW, do you realize that Leia is now technically a Disney Princess? Which retroactively ends every debate on their relative merits. Ariel's seashells, Mulan's warrior prowess, or their associations, whether Jasmine's taste for slumming with criminals, Cinderella's elderly supernatural savior, or Snow White's creepy little unhuman friends, and whatever other qualities you want to praise those cartoon girls for...Leia did it better. Period.

I'm sorry to say that Leia has never actually done anything of use, except small tasks for Han. She was the token female for your typical early 80s movie, and now that she can't use the Force, all my theories about her are proved correct. She's the Ron Weasley of Star Wars. Her son even became a dark jedi, so she's pretty much the worst mom/general/princess ever. All she does is wait on planets targeted by the Empire and as a general I didn't see her offer a single piece of advice. Her advisors made the plans and she stood around platting her hair into a bun. She's died almost countless times. I'm sorry but Mulan wins if you look at the facts. Jabba the Hut had the right idea with Leia, there's nothing to be salvaged there...

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Star Wars : The Force Awakens review (spoiler free) - 17/12/2015 09:18:26 AM 1638 Views
Love your review! I'm seeing it tomorrow night at 9pm. Can't wait! *NM* - 18/12/2015 01:20:16 AM 384 Views
Some (relatively spoiler free) thoughts - 18/12/2015 12:27:22 PM 694 Views
I pretty much agree with most of that. - 18/12/2015 01:05:16 PM 668 Views
Agreed, Driver did a great job..... - 19/12/2015 05:46:44 AM 544 Views
Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 03:04:37 PM 610 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 04:35:49 PM 483 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 05:51:29 PM 513 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 04:44:36 AM 525 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 07:37:39 PM 511 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 19/12/2015 05:30:13 PM 548 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 20/12/2015 09:51:22 AM 667 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 21/12/2015 06:31:54 PM 827 Views
The books... - 21/12/2015 09:05:28 PM 561 Views
Re: The books... - 22/12/2015 03:12:52 AM 523 Views
In general agreement ** potential Spoilers ** - 19/12/2015 06:06:23 AM 498 Views
There are books? - 19/12/2015 11:19:07 AM 555 Views
Re: There are books? - 19/12/2015 05:41:45 PM 603 Views
So Darth Plagieus might still be in? Sweet. - 20/12/2015 04:44:21 AM 486 Views
Palpatine's master? - 20/12/2015 02:25:45 PM 487 Views
I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 09:47:16 PM 516 Views
Re: I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 10:05:49 PM 591 Views
Yeah, I think we're talking about the same one. - 24/12/2015 12:05:57 AM 506 Views
Journey to Star Wars: The Force Awakens - 19/12/2015 06:07:16 PM 526 Views
I don't think any of that had to be explained. - 19/12/2015 12:16:07 PM 477 Views
I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 19/12/2015 08:22:21 PM 592 Views
Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 06:04:43 AM 612 Views
Re: Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 08:06:40 PM 450 Views
Re: I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 20/12/2015 10:07:36 AM 564 Views
Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:00:32 PM 660 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:11:30 PM 577 Views
You're making me reply to two posts - 18/12/2015 03:29:23 PM 539 Views
The death (spoilers) - 22/12/2015 10:30:05 PM 556 Views
Re: You're making me reply to two posts - 29/12/2015 05:24:39 AM 549 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 29/12/2015 05:19:54 AM 499 Views
I have tickets for tonight - 18/12/2015 04:47:17 PM 562 Views
Arbrams impressed me(spoiler free) - 19/12/2015 05:17:42 AM 660 Views
'Revenge of the Sith' (3rd prequel) was actually a decent movie - 18/12/2015 10:46:52 PM 536 Views
They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 18/12/2015 11:38:36 PM 553 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 12:19:10 AM 584 Views
Well - 19/12/2015 05:53:56 AM 507 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 07:46:06 AM 675 Views
people forget they were kids movies *NM* - 19/12/2015 01:17:10 AM 402 Views
Yeah, people take the whole 'Star Wars' thing too seriously - 19/12/2015 02:59:29 AM 553 Views
BTW, Daniel Craig is totally forgiven for Spectre. He was a Stormtrooper (spoilers for role) - 18/12/2015 11:40:44 PM 511 Views
Yip that's true *NM* - 19/12/2015 07:46:59 AM 383 Views
And Simon Pegg was the alien who ran the trading post Rey always went to *NM* - 20/12/2015 02:30:59 PM 453 Views
I got the impression he was actually her boss or contractor - 28/12/2015 12:48:48 PM 673 Views
Pretty much... - 29/12/2015 12:08:58 AM 582 Views
Absolutely, yes *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:54:52 PM 431 Views
Just saw it! Holy shit, shit, shit, shit.....it was amazing. - 19/12/2015 05:38:44 AM 544 Views
Loved it (Spoilers) - 19/12/2015 06:16:54 AM 522 Views
Fantastic characters, great entertainment, no originality, no logic - 29/12/2015 03:33:43 AM 557 Views
Your Mom has no originality or logic! *NM* - 29/12/2015 11:39:41 AM 436 Views
JJ Abrams should be able to do better than my Mom - 30/12/2015 04:20:54 AM 436 Views
I gave it a B+ overall but I think the characters are its weak spot - 29/12/2015 05:08:15 PM 442 Views
JJ Abrams' movies are character-driven, Lucas' movies are plot-driven - 30/12/2015 04:38:49 AM 455 Views
Lucas has created some of the most iconics chacters in movie history ? - 31/12/2015 02:29:02 PM 519 Views
So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 10:11:01 AM 507 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 07:10:56 PM 865 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 09:24:08 PM 483 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 31/12/2015 04:58:24 PM 466 Views
It was fun, and I look forward to the next ones, but can't say I was that wowed. - 30/12/2015 09:26:10 PM 453 Views
Why is time for female lead and why does the lef think subtraction is the answer to inequality? - 04/01/2016 01:37:37 PM 363 Views
Because the six other movies had zero female Jedis of any importance? - 04/01/2016 05:58:25 PM 555 Views
Just another check the box movie, then - 04/01/2016 06:02:41 PM 459 Views
Oh, come on. You're really going to complain just because they had a woman and a black guy? - 04/01/2016 11:48:52 PM 472 Views
They are talking abou tmakin ght Gunslinger black - 05/01/2016 02:05:36 PM 486 Views
Yeah, Star Wars is just part of the larger trend. It can't be viewed in a vacuum (pun intended). - 05/01/2016 02:38:34 PM 473 Views
That's not really what I said, you'll note. - 05/01/2016 07:48:08 PM 583 Views
I don't think it was Disney's business acumen. - 06/01/2016 06:59:46 PM 584 Views
Wow. That's... sad. - 06/01/2016 09:32:37 PM 522 Views
Re: Wow. That's... sad. - 08/01/2016 03:08:58 AM 535 Views
I am noit sure how well that 7-12 girl demographic will work in merchandising - 08/01/2016 06:30:47 PM 573 Views
Your premise is entirely wrong. - 12/01/2016 05:53:26 AM 471 Views
Actually, they do have a major character who is Latino. - 12/01/2016 07:15:31 PM 453 Views
The culture wars are just about blacks and feminists. - 13/01/2016 02:31:20 AM 521 Views
All that Paul said - 17/01/2016 05:13:59 PM 508 Views
LOL - 05/01/2016 06:33:50 PM 487 Views
Funny that people use strwmen arguments to make themsleves feel smart - 08/01/2016 04:22:22 PM 496 Views
It's not a straw man - 08/01/2016 04:52:03 PM 487 Views
it was story of a father and son so it makes sense to male leads - 04/01/2016 06:59:33 PM 409 Views
Male leads, sure, but it wasn't just the leads. - 04/01/2016 11:28:12 PM 536 Views
Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 05/01/2016 05:55:51 PM 506 Views
I don't see how it makes sense to compare their roles, but Finn is certainly plenty strong. - 05/01/2016 07:38:05 PM 475 Views
Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 02:52:58 PM 445 Views
Re: Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 05:50:08 PM 472 Views
I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 02:49:44 PM 485 Views
Re: I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 03:26:34 PM 465 Views
The reall issue it looks like Luke sucked as Jedi master - 07/01/2016 07:14:31 PM 490 Views
Sorry, no. - 06/01/2016 06:56:09 PM 499 Views
What a load of crap. - 08/01/2016 10:29:35 AM 448 Views
I only partially agree - 08/01/2016 03:27:10 PM 505 Views
Sorry if science isn't your thing but no what I said is true - 09/01/2016 11:49:15 PM 479 Views
Re: Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 08/01/2016 10:01:16 AM 428 Views
Well said *NM* - 05/01/2016 12:01:25 PM 408 Views
Because it isn't "subtraction"... - 08/01/2016 09:33:24 AM 458 Views
Of course it is - 09/01/2016 10:19:53 PM 459 Views
Okay so about the big bad guy *spoilers* - 05/01/2016 06:27:37 PM 549 Views
I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:07:26 PM 512 Views
Re: I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:42:42 PM 481 Views
What speaks against is for me... - 05/01/2016 10:57:44 PM 759 Views
Re: What speaks against is for me... - 06/01/2016 10:08:35 AM 555 Views
It's all good stuff, like the first book in a good sci-fi/fantasy trilogy! - 07/01/2016 06:44:45 AM 557 Views
I think it's pretty obvious... - 17/01/2016 07:43:19 AM 536 Views

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