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Re: The existence of that right isn't what I'm arguing. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 18/01/2010 11:57:33 AM
I'm simply wondering how you can argue that the right to economic freedom supersedes other rights (e.g. right to free speech).
They are all part of the same thing. You have the right to use your voice (or other means of expression) as you wish, too. Both rights are about doing what you want with what is yours.

How exactly WOULD free speech interfere with property rights?

That would depend on your philosophy, wouldn't it? A religious person would probably claim that these rights are given to man by God, whereas someone less inclined to metaphysics might claim that rights exist only insofar as one possesses the power of self-determinance.

Your last question is a simple reversal of my question, so I don't consider it particularly valid. I'm simply wondering how you justify a worldview that places "[the right] to food, shelter, health or health care, or clothing or employment" as mere subsidiary rights of "what he or she can obtain through an exchange of goods or services."
Because those others are not the same kind of rights. There is no natural right to things that might be possessed by another. Natural rights, like freedom of speech & worship & action and property, do not require the surrender of others' rights. Your hypothetical rights to health care & food & the like presume a right to take those from others. The right to property does not. As long as everyone's property or natural rights are respected, they do not infringe upon others' property or natural rights. You cannot say that it is possible to grant everyone food, shelter etc, without violating the natural or property rights of others.

What, in short, is your rationale for the sole existence of the right to economic freedom when you discard the existence of other postulated rights that are declared equally intrinsic to the human condition and thus originate from the same source?
Declared by whom? What source? I do not acknowledge those, because they are not rights, they are offers of gifts. Your disingenuous attempt to legitimize those fads by juxtaposing them with natural rights does not change the essential nature. The rights to property & liberty require others to back off. The rights you mention require others to give. No one has the right to demand action of another, which is what those BS rights to shelter, health care, etc. assert. Property rights merely demand that no one interfere with the owner's rights to do as he wishes. They do not demand that others subsidize his property or contribute to make his owning it possible. In other words, natural rights are more like restraints upon how others may act upon you, whereas your made-up rights are demands of actions by others. There is no legitimate basis for demanding people supply those things, and they would all require the intervention of an outside force. There are no natural restrictions on human freedoms. There is no restraint upon action or speech or use of property that does not occur without human intervention. On the other hand, a man alone in the wilderness has no way of being provided with his so-called rights to food, shelter or health care. He is free to speak, act or use his possessions as he pleases, but without human society, he cannot be awarded what you claim are equivalent rights to what he does possess. Where human society is the only thing that can infringe upon natural rights, it is the only thing that can provide your theoetical rights, and thus they are NOT natural.
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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Suspension of Disbelief with Politics - 05/01/2010 06:46:53 PM 1647 Views
Oh I hear ya! - 05/01/2010 08:35:38 PM 869 Views
I don't completely agree, but this is similar to everyone retroactively hating Tom Cruise's movies. - 05/01/2010 08:47:19 PM 911 Views
Which is just as silly, yes. *NM* - 05/01/2010 08:48:55 PM 408 Views
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the point is... - 06/01/2010 11:25:46 PM 816 Views
talk about needing a clue - 09/01/2010 06:01:14 PM 769 Views
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trespasses against persons is subjective. - 07/01/2010 07:09:22 AM 865 Views
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Duh. - 14/01/2010 03:00:56 AM 763 Views
The existence of that right isn't what I'm arguing. - 18/01/2010 09:01:07 AM 759 Views
Re: The existence of that right isn't what I'm arguing. - 18/01/2010 11:57:33 AM 1078 Views
Apaprently I misread your earlier post. Very good points. *NM* - 19/01/2010 01:17:01 AM 389 Views
I'll agree to the trespass against persons - 09/01/2010 06:07:29 PM 831 Views
What bullshit you write. - 10/01/2010 01:30:02 AM 737 Views
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So what you're saying is people shouldn't take movies to heart ? - 06/01/2010 01:39:21 PM 821 Views
That's just the point. - 06/01/2010 04:15:48 PM 919 Views
Precisely *NM* - 06/01/2010 04:45:58 PM 421 Views
indeed. they are not "soldiers" - 07/01/2010 07:12:32 AM 813 Views
that's a weasel script - 07/01/2010 09:55:13 AM 782 Views
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what makes them "look like military"?? - 09/01/2010 06:15:24 PM 855 Views
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AMEN *NM* - 09/01/2010 06:09:27 PM 385 Views
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Uh oh, you used the "c" word... - 08/01/2010 07:47:40 PM 889 Views
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Isn't that a Bible quote? *NM* - 09/01/2010 12:33:51 AM 406 Views
I guess maybe from an epistle? *NM* - 09/01/2010 02:44:36 AM 383 Views
Yup, Romans 8:31 - 09/01/2010 11:36:46 PM 713 Views
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That seems like a pretty dangerous philosophy. - 09/01/2010 06:24:35 AM 874 Views
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he he *NM* - 11/01/2010 12:20:26 AM 363 Views
Maybe a little. - 11/01/2010 06:06:24 AM 889 Views
I like your philosophy. Thanks for sharing! *NM* - 11/01/2010 03:08:09 PM 355 Views
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Both of you are more or less right - 08/01/2010 08:59:34 AM 732 Views
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And why is it that anyone who can <spoilers!> - 08/01/2010 09:03:45 AM 993 Views
Exactly! *Same spoilers ^he^ had. - 08/01/2010 04:59:16 PM 814 Views
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if there were all these hotshot warriors trying - 11/01/2010 12:22:19 AM 744 Views
Poor scriptwriting *NM* - 11/01/2010 12:56:24 AM 385 Views
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Gher's right. It's Plot convinience, with a capital P *NM* - 13/01/2010 09:42:07 PM 367 Views
Re: Exactly! *Same spoilers ^he^ had. - 09/01/2010 01:27:59 PM 964 Views
It's pretty easy to conquer one of those things - 10/01/2010 08:27:20 PM 960 Views
Re: It's pretty easy to conquer one of those things - 10/01/2010 08:56:38 PM 733 Views
seriously - 11/01/2010 12:23:58 AM 690 Views

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