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Re: cool people change the subject line Datakim Send a noteboard - 04/05/2010 08:31:47 AM

This is not about what we as readers know. It's about what the characters know. Also, I highly doubt that Rand will not already be holding the Power during the battle.


Well basically what I mean with the sickness is that whether or not it will have an effect will depend on how Gawyn might proceed here.

Obviously if Gawyn goes the route of trying to challenge Rand to a honorable duel and so on then Rand would obviously have the necessary time to embrace the source and suffer through the sickness this causes before the duel started. He could then keep hold of the power (the sickness seems worst when he grabs hold of the power, then gets better) during the entire fight.

However since Gawyn is such a nutcase who believes Rand is some crazy murdering animal, it seems quite possible that rather than an official challenge or the like, he will just ambush Rand unexpectedly and try to basically murder him as quickly and as efficiently as possible. In this case Rand is pretty much helpless, medallion or not. He needs time to reach the source due to the sickness, time Gawyn's surprise ambush would not give.

Basically my point here is that if Gawyn manages surprises Rand, he won't need the medallion at all to kill Rand. The medallion is not required.


Perhaps. But we are talking about the guy who was going to use the Choedan Kal to cleanse saidin with nothing but a Warder for backup. A damn good Warder, sure...but he didn't trust anyone else but Nynaeve. His reason for going to Far Madding was to get rid of the ones that had tried to kill him so they couldn't sneak up on him while he was doing it (as if the Forsaken just didn't exist or something). Nynaeve talked him into letting her bring Alivia. Cadsuane used Alanna to find him, and brought other channelers with her. If not for that, he wouldn't have stood a chance.


No denying that Rand has acted like an idiot before.

I guess I am kinda hoping that now that he seems to have merged with the more experienced LTT, he would act smarter in the future and we won't get these kinds of stupid mistakes anymore.

There is really only 2 books left and the next book will be more about Perrin and Mat. Would it really hurt to have atleast a single book where Rand is actually a truly intelligent and competent hero.

You know what I would like? I would like a scene where Gawyn arrives, blames Rand for his Mothers death and challenges Rand to a duel only to have Rand say that he won't be so selfish as to risk the entire world over some stupid duel with an ignorant moron like Gawyn, and then orders the hordes of Aiel with him to capture Gawyn and throw him into a dungeon until the last battle is over.


Gawyn can't check the truth, without Morgase. Rand knows about Morgase, but until Rand shows up, that knowledge won't be available to Gawyn. If Gawyn wouldn't believe Egwene when she said that Rand didn't kill his mother, why would he believe Elayne? He trusts both of them, but he knows that they weren't there when Morgase disappeared. Morgase took great care to go undercover when she left, so there is no one who knows that secret. Galad and Perrin know, and they have Morgase, but they won't get there in time. And Gawyn sure as hell isn't going to take Rand's word for it.


Elayne knows the truth. He could ask her. I would expect that the word of his sister and queen would still hold atleast some worth to Gawyn. There is also the fact that when Rand invaded, the palace was defended by trollocs. Surely there are still some soldiers Gawyn could question to confirm that.

Also remember that Egwene/AS have told neither Gawyn nor Gareth Bryne the truth about any of this. GB for example still thinks that Morgase willingly betrayed Andor when we know that she was simply a victim of Rahvins compulsion. Not even Siuan has told him which I think is a really twisted and cruel thing to do.

I hope when GB finally learns about Rahvin, and about how the Siuan/Egwene/AS has kept in him in the dark despite all the support and help he gave them, he will get really pissed off and call them on it.


A prelude to this is Rand's duel with Toram Riatin in the rebel camp outside of Cairhien, blademaster to blademaster, but with practice swords. Perhaps there will be a bubble of evil involved for this one too; these events are pretty impossible to predict. But anyway, everyone with Rand told him he was stupid to duel with Toram, but he did it anyway, partly just because he wanted to prove his superiority with the sword.


I don't think this is really close to a potential duel with Gawyn. This was not with real swords as you say, but most importantly this happened BEFORE Rand went to SL and did the whole balefire-joining with Moridin and before he lost his hand.

And I seem to recall that it was less about proving his superiority, and more about trying to impress Toram to make him more pliable to Rand's political approaches.


Also, I imagine that Galad will contribute in some way not only to keeping Morgase away from Caemlyn, but also to setting off the Battle of Caemlyn (parallel to the knight who starts the battle by drawing his sword to kill a snake). A nice contrast to Mat's ta'verenness working for him, and Rand's working against him (because he has to die).


Obviously if the pattern wants Rand dead, he will die. The pattern could easily arrange for Rand to slip and break his neck if it wanted to. I just don't know if he really has to die this way, or if Gawyn has to be the one to do it.


That all depends. Elayne is Aviendha's first-sister and Rand's baby's momma, so she has some level of importance to the Maidens, I think. Rand need not be over-guarded for this.


But Elayne already has those bodyguards of hers, and even then there are more than enough maidens around to guard both Rand AND Elayne.


She wasn't always with Rand in TGS, and she need not be right by his side for this. Nynaeve might even be away, checking on Lan, for all we know. These details are impossible to predict.


Maybe. As you say anything could be arranged. Though you would expect that if Rand goes to Caemlyn, Nynaeve will join him to visit her friend Elayne if nothing else.


You're making the mistake of assuming that just because the situation could go in a way that would prevent Rand vs. Gawyn, that it necessarily should. It's not a very logical way of approaching the situation. There are thousands of possibilities as to how this could play out, and even a situation that seems a little out there could easily be written, and believably.


Obviously there are thousands of possibilities. There is nothing in your theory that is impossible as such. It might very well happen the way you say.

I am just being devils advocate here by trying to point out things where things might not make sense. Your theory relies greatly on speculation and on the assumptions that things will follow very closely to Arthurian legends. I guess we shall see.



There is a prophecy that says it will happen ('into the heart, he thrusts his sword' ), and also a very clear Arthurian parallel: Arthur and Mordred killed each other simultaneously. Of course, Arthur supposedly was going to come back and lead his armies against the enemy.


Maybe. Though most people believe that refers to Callandor. As do I. Maybe we will discover that this prophecy was misinterpreted, but to be honest I really doubt it.

The whole stab each other simultaneously thing would also be a bit repetitive. We already had that with Rand and Ishy in book 2.


Balefire is direct.


How do you know? Did RJ confirm that or is there something in the book that says this?
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