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Thanks. Terez Send a noteboard - 05/05/2010 03:21:53 AM
I didnt say there were flaws in your logic. You /must/ admit the possibility of flaws in your logic though... unless you are in denial or are superhuman.

Straw man. I just asked you to point out the flaws because I can't address them if you don't.

1 - Foreshadowing can only be used as evidence "after the fact". Sure - some foreshadowing is blatantly obvious. Others not. You dont know for sure until the foreshadow is proven to be that. You are relying on a lot of foreshadowing to get from point A to B. Then B to F. Then F to M. Then M to Z.

Foreshadowing works like this: there are hints, and there are red herrings, and there are things that RJ didn't intend to be either. Yeah, it's common for people to hop on the train to Boston accidentally for making too much out of nothing. For this theory, I think that I have tied together enough of these things to make a strong case.

2 - A lot of characters from the books are based of off familiar ledgends, myths or religious ideas. The "silver" assumption though... you lay it out as fact that this idea parallels Jesus and Judas. This argument is like saying "A peach is a fruit. Therefore a cookie is an animal." Well, not quite that durastic but this is also a falacy of logic.

Not really. The Judas parallel with Mat has already been pointed out by others. But if Mat does not somehow contribute to Rand's death, then the Judas parallel falls flat. I'm not laying it out like it's fact - I'm laying it out like it makes sense. I have various plot lines from the books to back that up.

Elayne's fascination with ter'angreal, and his in particular. Mat doesn't even know if he's coming back from Ghenjei alive, and who better to entrust the medallion to? Mat's last effort to keep his promise to Rand, to keep Elayne safe.

Alivia being primed to fight the Seanchan, to use what they taught her against them. The Battle of Caemlyn will be her last chance, because the truce is coming. Alivia being foreshadowed as the girl with the toys, the one that gets all the 'angreal to play with in battle. Alivia's 'help' toward Rand's death being random, not at all like we anticipated it would be, and totally unpredictable if not for all the other hints that are pointing to it.

Gawyn being the hidden Mordred parallel. Not a creature of the dark, but someone on the side of the Light. Bryne's advice to Gawyn in The Gathering Storm was for Gawyn to choose a side. Here, Arthurian parallel works together with Jesus parallel in Egwene's comment "Betray? Gawyn Trakand, that word fits you as darkness fits the sun." It's not just a random "I think this will be a parallel to this" kind of thing. It's several connections working together, along with several themes that RJ has had running through the entire series. Rand's death will come at the hands of someone who is supposedly on his side, in the midst of a battle between two forces of the Light: Randland and the Seanchan (both Elayne and Tuon have recently purged their Darkfriends, and Egwene as well, with the only remaining Shadow strength that we know of at the Black Tower).

And hence the Logain dream actually makes sense. Rand is dead, and Logain's got to do the deed at the Black Tower, where he will earn his glory. But Rand is coming back from the dead, and not in the same body, so the image of his body in Egwene's dream is insubstantial. This has also been heavily foreshadowed, because Rand has been avoiding his mistrust of Taim since the man showed up in Lord of Chaos, and he's been resisting Logain's efforts to turn Rand's attention there. Logain already has a following of men under Rand's command, just as he did under Taim's - men who have pledged to Logain to be 'there on the day'.

Everyone thinks that their last hope is gone. This explains the title of the final book - A Memory of Light. This explains why Tuon has to lead the forces of the Light at the Last Battle; Rand will be dead. Of course, he'll be brought back from the dead (unless he is simply called by the Horn to finish things up, which I now think unlikely), but the world won't know that. His link with Moridin will hopefully be severed, and his link with Alanna, and his bond with his women will be reinstated to save him from dying after being ripped out of Tel'aran'rhiod. They will probably be waiting on him when he gets ripped out, with the first part of the bonding already done - the three shall be one - and Aviendha and Elayne will have the 'blade of light' waiting for him (the ter'angreal that hides a person from creatures of the Shadow). (In other words, Etzel is quite right that his women with body-watching duty are important, but I don't think it will be quite the funeral that he expects.) Rand's links with Perrin and Mat will probably automatically come back when he is ripped out.

I was simply stating that I am not on board but would like to see a list, if you're keeping one, of the "some details that are not so clear" that you mentioned above.

Most of the details that are not clear are simply details that won't be clear until we read the book. Not every single aspect of what will happen is predictable. Some things will be deliberately unpredictable. My theory mainly deals with the aspects that are predictable, and it essentially boils down to this: Gawyn will kill Rand, and this will be enabled by Mat's medallion, taken from Alivia's dead body. There are many ways that it could play out, but those are the essential elements. It's like Clue:

Gawyn, at the Battle of Caemlyn, with Mat's medallion (and a sword, I imagine)

Except Clue doesn't have accomplices, and Alivia would be an unwitting accomplice.

Alternatively:

Graendal, in the wine pantry (was it actually a pantry?), with balefire

or

Slayer, in Tel'aran'rhiod, with the dagger

See, all this time we have been trying to figure out who killed Asmodean, while we should have been trying to figure out who will kill Rand. There's more evidence to work with, even though it hasn't happened yet.
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