Active Users:284 Time:06/05/2024 12:48:49 AM
Re: Take two Datakim Send a noteboard - 18/05/2010 07:11:08 PM

Perhaps. I think that there are any number of ways that the duel could go down, and I'm not sure why you are focusing on scenarios in which something would go wrong for the prophecies. Like I said, I think it most likely that Rand will manage to give the first fatal blow. With only one arm, he'll be defenseless against Gawyn's counterstroke (it has nothing to do with back-turning...just swordplay).


The point I was making is that Rand presumably would not think being killed by Gawyn would fullfill a prophecy, even if in reality it would, so he would/should do all in his power to prevent it or if its too late and he is already dying, to undo it.

I will say that obviously if your theory is correct and Gawyn killing Rand is a fullfillment of prophecy then obviously things will just "work out" in such a way. I am just pointing out potential logic flaws and things that I would probably bring up even if it DID happen because the more consistent and rational the book is, the better I like it.

As for being one-armed, how will that make him more vulnerable to a counterstroke? I am not sure I understand. I mean it would not really matter if his sword is one or two handed, if it is stuck in Gawyn and Gawyn still has the strength to strike back he could do that even if Rand had both his hands. So presumably this is something Rand knows and is already trained and prepared for.


As I said in my post, I think it will be a proper duel. It's probably impossible to predict the exact conditions; I don't see why you would expect me to when there are any number of situations in which it would make sense. It may be a simple matter of honor, accepting the challenge to a duel...or it might be something Gawyn pulls out of Andoran law, like Galad did with Whitecloak law.


The thing is I have trouble with many of those conditions.

I mean this is Rand here, the dragon reborn, the one human being that stands between the world and the complete destruction of reality itself. Gawyn could challenge Rand, but for Rand to agree to a duel that could kill him (and therefore the entire universe) would be stupidity on such a colossal scale that I simply cannot believe Rand would do it.

This is twice as true when we consider that Rand is not only innocent of the crime that Gawyn is accusing him about, but also KNOWS that Morgase is not even dead at all so the crime is not even real! Rand would not have any reason to feel in any way honorbound to duel Gawyn.

As for Andoran law, Rand should and would simply ignore that. He is under no obligation to follow some silly law when doing so could blow up the universe. Law is a human construct and Rand is dealing with issues much MUCH greater than that. Basically, his status in the universe obligates him to ignore such laws. And he has ignored such laws before for the purpose of winning over the DO. I mean he ruled over Caemlyn quite a while despite the fact that Andoran law says that the ruler has to be a woman.

I could maybe buy this if Rand was some average joe or something, but he is not. His survival is vital to the survival of the world and he knows it. I simply cannot accept that the new sane Rand/LTT would agree to this kind of utter foolishness from Gawyn. I doubt that even mad!Rand would have.


This is rather obvious. But it doesn't mean that Rand can't hang. He fought five at once with two hands, in Caemlyn.


None of those five men were even close to being a blademaster, let alone someone at the level Gawyn is described at being in TGS. Not to mention that if I recall correctly, Rand lost that fight.

It also occurs to me that if there is actually a real fight where Rand can "hang" on then he would have time to strike Gawyn down indirectly with OP, penetrating the protection offered by the medallion.


It indicates that Rand fears he will be killed by his first instinct; he even emphasizes the fact that it's not his primary sword hand. It's a rather odd thought, actually, since most of the situations in which his life will be in danger will not involve swordsmen, much less skilled ones. I see it as foreshadowing of his duel with Gawyn.


But it also suggests that Rand has not infact been retraining himself to fight one-handed and his belief that he will have little chance in an actual duel against anyone even remotely skilled due to this.


Also, later in the book, there is another quote in Min's point of view that indicates he is getting used to the one hand thing:

*SNIP QUOTE*

Just buttons...but Rand is smart enough to be more critical than cocky when it comes to the vulnerability in his sword technique.


I would say that learning to button a shirt with one hand is a MASSIVE difference from learning a completely new type of swordfighting. Especially so since we don't have even a single mention at TGS that Rand is even trying to do so. He spends more time looking for Graendal and messing with politics. Surely if Rand had been spending hours and hours relearning the sword, it would have been mentioned atleast once.
Reply to message
My new 'loony' theory - 03/05/2010 11:09:52 AM 2161 Views
Hehe, yeah, we can also discuss it here... - 03/05/2010 12:04:57 PM 1039 Views
Good deal. You're still being prejudiced, though. - 03/05/2010 12:20:00 PM 1190 Views
Of course, I prefer my theory.... - 03/05/2010 01:01:07 PM 897 Views
I suppose it's better than Beslan - 03/05/2010 01:19:52 PM 1081 Views
He, Beslan being Berelain's man in white was a most brilliant theory! - 03/05/2010 01:55:07 PM 1055 Views
See, this is why I am right and you are wrong! - 04/05/2010 03:56:31 AM 855 Views
In my view - 04/05/2010 10:07:02 AM 805 Views
Still prejudiced, of course... - 04/05/2010 10:24:53 AM 906 Views
Just disagreeing - 04/05/2010 11:15:44 AM 891 Views
And repeating yourself. But I have evidence. - 04/05/2010 12:24:06 PM 874 Views
Well... - 04/05/2010 01:10:17 PM 808 Views
This is getting silly - 04/05/2010 01:27:56 PM 788 Views
Mat's reasons for giving up the foxhead ter'angreal - 03/05/2010 03:53:43 PM 985 Views
Why only the gholam? - 04/05/2010 04:00:18 AM 860 Views
Re: My new 'loony' theory - 03/05/2010 04:27:12 PM 965 Views
cool people change the subject line - 04/05/2010 04:14:18 AM 996 Views
Re: cool people change the subject line - 04/05/2010 06:43:01 AM 786 Views
Re: cool people change the subject line - 04/05/2010 07:32:24 AM 836 Views
Re: cool people change the subject line - 04/05/2010 08:31:47 AM 1004 Views
Re: cool people change the subject line - 04/05/2010 09:27:51 AM 916 Views
oops *NM* - 04/05/2010 09:28:11 AM 571 Views
Re: cool people change the subject line - 04/05/2010 03:17:42 PM 908 Views
I dont claim to be but didnt you say cool people change the subject line? - 05/05/2010 02:41:49 AM 870 Views
Yes. What of it? *NM* - 05/05/2010 03:22:34 AM 572 Views
Re: My new 'loony' theory - 04/05/2010 04:44:28 AM 957 Views
what comments by Brandon, and what flaws? - 04/05/2010 04:49:29 AM 928 Views
Re: what comments by Brandon, and what flaws? - 05/05/2010 02:34:33 AM 1047 Views
Thanks. - 05/05/2010 03:21:53 AM 953 Views
No go. *NM* - 03/11/2010 03:14:13 AM 495 Views
Who draws it out shall follow after - 04/05/2010 12:33:56 PM 969 Views
I don't think.... - 04/05/2010 01:22:21 PM 889 Views
Gawyn promised not to raise a hand against Rand - 06/05/2010 12:59:47 AM 723 Views
Indeed he did. - 06/05/2010 07:23:44 AM 1113 Views
But... - 06/05/2010 08:52:04 AM 920 Views
Just because it makes more sense to you doesn't make it more likely. I have evidence! - 06/05/2010 09:57:52 AM 750 Views
Well... - 06/05/2010 11:12:42 AM 843 Views
*sigh* - 06/05/2010 01:41:03 PM 950 Views
I'm still hoping to dissuade you from this crazy idea! - 06/05/2010 02:07:54 PM 893 Views
You won't. - 06/05/2010 02:11:42 PM 889 Views
Gawyn agreed that he would talk with Elayne about this topic - 06/05/2010 02:32:55 PM 963 Views
Reading comprehension issues. *NM* - 06/05/2010 02:43:28 PM 541 Views
Ah, come on, it's fun to discuss! - 06/05/2010 02:49:01 PM 793 Views
the problem there - 07/05/2010 05:45:23 AM 797 Views
more to the point - 07/05/2010 04:45:40 AM 828 Views
considering Rand won't hurt Elayne - 07/05/2010 05:46:23 AM 779 Views
wow - 06/05/2010 01:46:22 AM 902 Views
thanks! - 06/05/2010 07:25:25 AM 730 Views
Re: thanks! - 12/05/2010 10:50:50 PM 805 Views
Nice theory ... - 07/05/2010 06:25:29 PM 929 Views
Or Elayne could just give it to Gawyn. - 07/05/2010 07:34:44 PM 826 Views
True, but I prefer the idea that he'll steal it because ... - 07/05/2010 08:32:29 PM 806 Views
Thanks - 08/05/2010 07:56:17 AM 802 Views
Nice! But how about.... - 12/05/2010 01:58:00 PM 1003 Views
They'll kill each other - 12/05/2010 02:22:18 PM 719 Views
Also - 12/05/2010 09:06:25 PM 817 Views
Re: Also - 12/05/2010 10:49:51 PM 823 Views
Actually - 12/05/2010 11:50:26 PM 933 Views
Take two - 17/05/2010 07:33:35 PM 807 Views
Re: Take two - 17/05/2010 11:45:08 PM 831 Views
Re: Take two - 18/05/2010 12:52:10 AM 889 Views
Re: Take two - 18/05/2010 01:35:46 AM 957 Views
Re: Take two - 18/05/2010 01:45:24 AM 895 Views
Re: Take two - 18/05/2010 03:22:37 AM 1012 Views
Re: Take two - 18/05/2010 06:32:57 AM 863 Views
Re: Take two - 18/05/2010 07:11:08 PM 731 Views
Re: Take two - 18/05/2010 10:07:36 PM 790 Views
From DomA's World Con report - 18/05/2010 10:42:48 PM 778 Views
Yeah, we knew that... - 19/05/2010 08:25:04 AM 1009 Views

Reply to Message