Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM*
Etzel Send a noteboard - 27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM
Slayer stalking people. He also appears at many different locations in all over the Westlands using TAR to travel. If he had the general order to look for Asmo, he might simply have had the luck/opportunity to find him in the almost empty Caemlyn palace (as said, a location Luc certainly knows very well) Maybe he was also in contact with Rahvin before, or was searching for Fain in Caemlyn.
Slayer mentions killing AS as something he especially likes, because he hates AS so much.
We know from RJ that all Forsaken know Slayer and vice versa, which only makes sense if he is a Top assassin of the Shadow, and that is what matters:
"Kura: Just one other question. Does Slayer know every Forsaken?
RJ: Yeah, he does.
Kura: Have all the Forsaken heard of Slayer?
RJ: Yes, they've heard of him. Slayer is not old in the way they are. Slayer does not come from the Age of Legends, Slayer is something much newer. Slayer is also known by all Forsaken."
Plus:
"Emma: Did Slayer meet Asmodean before he was killed?
RJ: No.. am, no. Not in the books."
That leaves open the possibility that they met off-screen.
Finally:
"Me: Did Slayer take Asmodean to Tel'aran'rhiod before, or after he killed him?
He and some other people started laughing, he thought a little and answered with a smile:
RJ: What makes you think Asmodean is dead?
I laughed and he continued:
RJ: Yeah, you screw with my head, I screw with yours...(that's actually what he said.)
So incidentally I made Jordan laugh and swear, but not answer the question."
That leaves open the possibility that Slayer took Asmo to TAR.
Slayer mentions killing AS as something he especially likes, because he hates AS so much.
We know from RJ that all Forsaken know Slayer and vice versa, which only makes sense if he is a Top assassin of the Shadow, and that is what matters:
"Kura: Just one other question. Does Slayer know every Forsaken?
RJ: Yeah, he does.
Kura: Have all the Forsaken heard of Slayer?
RJ: Yes, they've heard of him. Slayer is not old in the way they are. Slayer does not come from the Age of Legends, Slayer is something much newer. Slayer is also known by all Forsaken."
Plus:
"Emma: Did Slayer meet Asmodean before he was killed?
RJ: No.. am, no. Not in the books."
That leaves open the possibility that they met off-screen.
Finally:
"Me: Did Slayer take Asmodean to Tel'aran'rhiod before, or after he killed him?
He and some other people started laughing, he thought a little and answered with a smile:
RJ: What makes you think Asmodean is dead?
I laughed and he continued:
RJ: Yeah, you screw with my head, I screw with yours...(that's actually what he said.)
So incidentally I made Jordan laugh and swear, but not answer the question."
That leaves open the possibility that Slayer took Asmo to TAR.
Slayer MAY have met Asmo, off screen, could have been ordered by one of the Forsaken to kill Asmo, and just happened to be in Caemlyn on unrelated business on the day that Asmo happened to show up when he should have been in Cairhien if he was really stalking Asmo ... we've never seen Slayer show any ability to travel such great distance in TAR and he outright states he is more limited there than the Chosen.
As for killing the AS ... read the passage my friend he states outright:
That had been Isam, not him, but the memories were none the less prized for that. Neither of them got to kill an Aes Sedai very often.
No mention of his hatred of AS, only that it was prized because it was rare! No mention of some hatred of AS or some reason an AS would be a more prized memory than killing a Chosen!
And then there is the question of Asmo's body ... we know Slayer doesn't use Gateways to enter TAR ... and we've never seen him bring something bigger than personal equipment with him when her enters/exits... so now we're assuming that Slayer also can bring someone with him?
Graendal is much more simple ... she's been in cahoots with Rahvin (along with others), Sammael continually bugs her for information, she doesn't like to use DF networks when she can find her own "more reliable" spies ... she obviously has people around Rand already and with him jumping to Caemlyn she'd want a new crop to keep an eye on him.
The longer this debate goes on the less likely I find Slayer as the killer! I'm certainly not 100% positive Graendal did it, but I'm now less sure that Slayer is even a viable candidate!
An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds
27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM
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I hate to say it, as I love this mystery....
27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM
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I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer...
28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM
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In addition to Etzel's comments
28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM
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I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM*
28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM
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Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM*
29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM
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Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin
29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM
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Far-fetched, IMO
27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM
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I don't want Slayer to be the killer
27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM
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The way you twist things, it certainly seems so!
27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM
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Bah, hogwash!
27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM
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Re: Bah, hogwash!
27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM
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The point is...
28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM
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Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler
28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM
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As is Slayer
28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM
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There is no evidence of this at all
28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM
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Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys
28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM
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You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say....
28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM
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None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't
27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM
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We often see...
27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM
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I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious
27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM
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Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM*
27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM
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Indeed
28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM
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Well...
28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM
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Re: Well...
28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM
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I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above
28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM
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your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex!
28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM
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It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense
28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM
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Re: Well...
28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM
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No...
28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM
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let's try this another way
28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM
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The main problem with Graendal is...
28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM
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Re: The main problem with Graendal is...
28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM
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my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal.
28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM
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RJ used the expression...
29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM
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be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself
29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
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Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer
27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM
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Couple of questions
27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM
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Be'lal managed to get out NO!
27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM
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Hmmm
27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM
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I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves
27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM
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Hmmm I wonder about that.
27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM
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I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly
27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM
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Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM*
27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM
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No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM
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Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM
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But look...
28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM
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if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved
28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM
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The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM
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Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM
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RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM
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Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM
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Yeah, I know. *NM*
28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM
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Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH
28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM
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???
28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM
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Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM*
28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM
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Here is what RJ said EDIT
28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM
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Indeed
28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM
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Re: Indeed
28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM
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But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM
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Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM
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Re: Far-fetched, IMO
02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM
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Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM*
02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM
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Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot?
19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM
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Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM
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Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM
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The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM
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Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM
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Lanfear killed Asmo.....
28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM
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Doesn't make sense
28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM
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Sorry, Lanfear did it.....
29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM
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Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM*
29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM
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Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM*
28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM
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There is a quote that refutes this...
28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM
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He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes.
29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM
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No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM*
29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM
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RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever
28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM
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Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM*
28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM
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I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory
29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM
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If Slayer is actually the killer...
29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM
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Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that
29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM
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Well, I don't think so.
29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM
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RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM
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If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him
06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM
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But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM*
06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM
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Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books"
06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM
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Not "before" the murder. *NM*
06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM
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Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM*
06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM
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He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM*
07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM
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not if it didn't happen in the books
07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM
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I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he.
29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM
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That's what I've always thought as well.
29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM
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You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised".....
01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM
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except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity
01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM
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That is simply false.
02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM
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RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only"
02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM
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Of course, it is false
02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM
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Here are the quotes
02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM
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As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM*
02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM
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I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to
02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM
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Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM*
02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM
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that makes no sense at all *NM*
02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM
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RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM
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Well...
06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM
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Logic
06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM
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You're falling into Etzelian logic there...
06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM
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I'm just being a smartass *NM*
06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM
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That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM*
07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM
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just like thinking Slayer was the killer is
07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM
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Yeah...
07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM
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thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over
07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM
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Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM*
07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM
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No they show that she is deliberate!
07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM
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That are just semantics
07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM
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and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH?
07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM
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As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes...
07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM
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Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point?
07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM
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And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
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Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM
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You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it...
07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM
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That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled
07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM
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That is essentially what Moghedien said.
07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM
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um no it's not
07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM
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It's told after that...
07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM
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No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place
07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM
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Yeah...
07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM
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Funny I feel the same way you do ...
07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM
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Ah, whatever...
07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM
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We are on the exact same page
07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM
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