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??? Sidious Send a noteboard - 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM
But there are actually no clues regarding Graendal in the first 4 books, since Graendal isn't even really mentioned there.


RJ has never implied that there are clues in the first four books as to who killed Asmodean. Why on earth would there be? Asmodean was only captured in book 4. Is Graendal supposed to be thinking about killing Asmodean in book 1 while Rand is drinking from the Eye of the World? That's crazy stuff.

Book 5 established four Forsaken of principle importance (apart from Moghedien who had an altercation with Nynaeve). They were Lanfear, Rahvin, Sammael and Graendal. Lanfear and Rahvin died, and that left Sammael and Graendal as the principle murderers. RJ then provides several conversations where they discuss Asmodean. That's real evidence. What's Slayer got... the statement that he's the Shadow's assassin? Does that mean he killed Adeleas and Tylin too? C'mon.
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An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds Etzel - 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM 2828 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery.... GateKeeper - 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM 1512 Views
Surely, there can never be enough Asmo threads! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:18:06 PM 814 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer... FanEditor10 - 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM 1319 Views
It's not really obvious... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:08:27 AM 1253 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM 1196 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM 758 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM* newyorkersedai - 29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM 716 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM 1322 Views
Far-fetched, IMO DomA - 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM 1627 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 04:19:10 PM 846 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM 1331 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so! fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM 1425 Views
Bah, hogwash! Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM 1276 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! DomA - 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM 1303 Views
The point is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM 1366 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM 1408 Views
As is Slayer Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM 1295 Views
There is no evidence of this at all darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM 1230 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM 1213 Views
so far we've seen Slayer kill a sleeping guy and his wife darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:45:14 PM 1253 Views
I disagree. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:50:02 PM 1358 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say.... DomA - 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM 1311 Views
I think this is your interpretation Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:14 PM 1247 Views
Yeah right... fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 08:35:35 PM 1362 Views
See my replies above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:40:42 AM 1150 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:28:16 AM 1140 Views
See my repy to DomA. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:39:15 AM 1119 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM 1459 Views
We often see... Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM 1311 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM 1397 Views
Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM 1400 Views
Agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:03:51 PM 760 Views
Indeed Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM 1257 Views
Well... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM 1321 Views
Re: Well... darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM 1325 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM 1236 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex! darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM 1300 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM 1261 Views
common sense? darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:51:25 PM 1258 Views
See my posts above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:56 PM 1272 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM 1429 Views
No... Etzel - 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM 1312 Views
let's try this another way darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM 1315 Views
The main problem with Graendal is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM 1232 Views
Graendal has a pretty significant role in TFoH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 06:54:39 PM 1335 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is... DomA - 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM 1381 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM 1462 Views
RJ used the expression... Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM 1231 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM 1360 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:38:49 PM 1221 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer DomA - 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM 1305 Views
Couple of questions scalius - 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM 1322 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO! darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM 1159 Views
Hmmm scalius - 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM 1282 Views
Re: Hmmm RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:34:30 PM 1146 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM 1186 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM 1252 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM 1343 Views
We've seen it done. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/05/2010 06:32:08 PM 1186 Views
Not the same thing darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:00:13 PM 1196 Views
Re: Couple of questions DomA - 28/05/2010 03:29:29 PM 1345 Views
As said... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:36:28 AM 1278 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM* Tom - 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM 653 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Etzel - 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM 1302 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM 1281 Views
But look... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM 1294 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM 1210 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM 1264 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM 1292 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM 1323 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM 1191 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM 1262 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM 1283 Views
??? Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM 1230 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM 1271 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM 1042 Views
Indeed Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM 1184 Views
Re: Indeed darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM 1181 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM 1213 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM 1181 Views
LOL!! Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:29:35 PM 999 Views
Too much? Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:16:44 PM 1259 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO saidarisnowtainted - 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM 1375 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM 775 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? saidarisnowtainted - 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM 1071 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken darius_sedai - 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM 1282 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken saidarisnowtainted - 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM 1505 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book darius_sedai - 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM 996 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book saidarisnowtainted - 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM 1416 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:19:18 PM 1208 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds DomA - 27/05/2010 09:16:21 PM 1214 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo..... trzaska2000 - 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM 1188 Views
Doesn't make sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM 1231 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it..... trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM 1134 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM 727 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM* Knightscape - 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM 785 Views
There is a quote that refutes this... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM 1263 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes. trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM 1225 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM 732 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM 1284 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM* newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM 829 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM 1220 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer... Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM 1249 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM 1216 Views
Well, I don't think so. Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM 1234 Views
yet he never gave an answer like this one darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:57:35 PM 1293 Views
Again... Etzel - 29/05/2010 03:09:06 PM 1310 Views
Taking things NO darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 03:12:24 PM 1267 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM 1098 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM 1096 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM 1164 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books" darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM 1143 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM 1149 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM 1109 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM 760 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM 1059 Views
I'm relieved then... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:13:58 PM 1066 Views
it's nearly as simplistic as knowing Graendal did it darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:48:42 PM 1197 Views
Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM 1384 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he. TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM 1228 Views
That's what I've always thought as well. Seriana Sedai - 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM 1160 Views
That's always been my theory too Sidious - 29/05/2010 10:18:30 PM 1261 Views
*nods* darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 11:23:18 PM 1268 Views
Re: That's always been my theory too Seriana Sedai - 30/05/2010 07:35:50 AM 1179 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised"..... trzaska2000 - 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM 1153 Views
That's why I said "I think" and offered my opinion. TaskmasterJack - 01/06/2010 09:46:09 PM 1191 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity darius_sedai - 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM 1176 Views
That is simply false. Etzel - 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM 1250 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only" darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM 1318 Views
Of course, it is false Etzel - 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM 1233 Views
Here are the quotes darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM 1165 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM 759 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM 1089 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM 631 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM 815 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM 1225 Views
Well... Etzel - 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM 1209 Views
Logic darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM 1178 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there... DomA - 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM 1178 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM 791 Views
It's good that Etzel sticks to his guns Sidious - 06/06/2010 04:42:01 PM 1285 Views
OMG, Taim and Mesaana were getting it on in the pantry darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 09:49:57 PM 1163 Views
That reminds me... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:46:58 AM 1182 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM 1217 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM 1172 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM 1276 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM 1223 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM 1418 Views
No they show that she is deliberate! darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM 1256 Views
That are just semantics Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM 1316 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM 1193 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes... Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM 1188 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM 1248 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM 1289 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM 1254 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it... Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM 1323 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM 1337 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said. Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM 1080 Views
um no it's not darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM 1172 Views
It's told after that... Etzel - 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM 1136 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM 1283 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM 1211 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ... darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM 1219 Views
Ah, whatever... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM 1152 Views
We are on the exact same page darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM 1183 Views
Re: We are on the exact same page Sidious - 07/06/2010 05:52:37 PM 1283 Views
LMAO darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 06:07:16 PM 1632 Views
I promised Etzel long ago... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:49:11 AM 1191 Views
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