Active Users:1329 Time:03/05/2026 02:06:01 PM
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
"Intuitively obvious" like his old math teacher did, namely that it is obvious, if you know which clues are important and have to be combined. Thus, it's certainly meant in a funny, faked presumptuous way to imitate the way a teacher would speak to his pupils, who try to figure some problem out. But it's not a randmon joke meaning that the killer isn't obvious at all, or that there isn't a line of reasoning, which makes the suspect more obvious that all the other suspects.

As said, the reasoning for Graendal isn't really more obvious than the reasoning for Sammael or other Forsaken before LoC. Therefore - and for all the other reasons I often pointed out - it's very unlikely that Graendal is the solution.

On the other hand, especially for the author (the "math teacher" in the analogy), who of course exactly knows what Slayer is, can do and did before, and who is aware that there are important clues to figure this out in the first 5 books (plus additional indirect clues in the next books), it's obvious that the Shadow's assassin killed yet another betrayer.

And regarding the opportunity-factor, compare it to Fain's attack on Rand in the end of ACoS. Fain always wanted to kill Rand, but in this scene he suddenly saw a good opportunity to finish Rand, and almost succeeded. One can compare this to Asmo's end, IMO.

Personally, if it turns out to be Slayer, I think one can't disagree with RJ that it was in a way obvious, following my line of reasoning. But we will RAFO!


He made the comment in a tongue-in-cheek manner (as others have pointed out)

From a 1998 Book signing

Who killed Asmodean?
o It should be "intuitively obvious".
o There ARE clues in later books. They may not be necessary, but they are there. I am not sure if he said "later" or "latest", though.
o He does indeed mean "intuitively obvious" in the sense that his math teachers would use when describing a proof, as speculated on rasfwr-j. "I always hated that."

This is a very telling quote to me.

1. RJ is getting a laugh out of this debate because he thought he'd made something obvious, when in fact he clearly did not.
2. The clues to the killer, where he thought he'd made it clear who the kill was, are mostly in TFoH, but he's woven a few new ones into LoC, ACoS and possibly PoD (that's the book he was touring for when this comment was made).

Given that Slayer is completely absent from any of these books I don't see how RJ could even begin to think the reader would be able to piece together Slayer as the killer from the text in TFoH or the subsequent books, when his only appearances on screen are anonymous!
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds - 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM 2802 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery.... - 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM 1494 Views
Surely, there can never be enough Asmo threads! *NM* - 27/05/2010 04:18:06 PM 801 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer... - 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM 1293 Views
It's not really obvious... - 28/05/2010 09:08:27 AM 1230 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments - 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM 1172 Views
Far-fetched, IMO - 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM 1600 Views
very well said *NM* - 27/05/2010 04:19:10 PM 835 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer - 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM 1305 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so! - 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM 1402 Views
Bah, hogwash! - 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM 1256 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! - 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM 1282 Views
The point is... - 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM 1338 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler - 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM 1388 Views
As is Slayer - 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM 1268 Views
There is no evidence of this at all - 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM 1207 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys - 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM 1192 Views
so far we've seen Slayer kill a sleeping guy and his wife - 28/05/2010 12:45:14 PM 1223 Views
I disagree. *NM* - 28/05/2010 12:50:02 PM 1339 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say.... - 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM 1289 Views
I think this is your interpretation - 28/05/2010 02:50:14 PM 1223 Views
Yeah right... - 27/05/2010 08:35:35 PM 1338 Views
See my replies above. *NM* - 28/05/2010 08:40:42 AM 1129 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! - 28/05/2010 08:28:16 AM 1117 Views
See my repy to DomA. *NM* - 28/05/2010 08:39:15 AM 1090 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't - 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM 1440 Views
We often see... - 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM 1287 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious - 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM 1380 Views
Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM* - 27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM 1377 Views
Agreed *NM* - 27/05/2010 06:03:51 PM 749 Views
Indeed - 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM 1233 Views
Well... - 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM 1299 Views
Re: Well... - 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM 1293 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above - 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM 1212 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex! - 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM 1278 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense - 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM 1233 Views
common sense? - 28/05/2010 12:51:25 PM 1233 Views
See my posts above. *NM* - 28/05/2010 02:50:56 PM 1248 Views
Re: Well... - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM 1410 Views
No... - 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM 1294 Views
let's try this another way - 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM 1292 Views
The main problem with Graendal is... - 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM 1211 Views
Graendal has a pretty significant role in TFoH - 28/05/2010 06:54:39 PM 1313 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is... - 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM 1360 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal. - 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM 1442 Views
RJ used the expression... - 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM 1214 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself - 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM 1328 Views
Re: No... - 28/05/2010 03:38:49 PM 1200 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer - 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM 1279 Views
Couple of questions - 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM 1295 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO! - 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM 1131 Views
Hmmm - 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM 1257 Views
Re: Hmmm - 27/05/2010 10:34:30 PM 1128 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves - 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM 1160 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that. - 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM 1226 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly - 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM 1322 Views
We've seen it done. - 28/05/2010 06:32:08 PM 1159 Views
Not the same thing - 28/05/2010 07:00:13 PM 1170 Views
Re: Couple of questions - 28/05/2010 03:29:29 PM 1324 Views
As said... - 28/05/2010 08:36:28 AM 1256 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM* - 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM 643 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too - 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM 1276 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too - 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM 1257 Views
But look... - 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM 1266 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved - 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM 1183 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course - 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM 1241 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course - 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM 1269 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* - 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM 1294 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* - 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM 1172 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM* - 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM 1239 Views
??? - 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM 1209 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM* - 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM 1244 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT - 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM 1014 Views
Indeed - 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM 1160 Views
Re: Indeed - 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM 1154 Views
LOL!! - 28/05/2010 03:29:35 PM 976 Views
Too much? - 28/05/2010 05:16:44 PM 1239 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO - 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM 1347 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM* - 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM 765 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? - 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM 1050 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken - 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM 1255 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken - 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM 1480 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book - 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM 970 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book - 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM 1391 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds - 27/05/2010 06:19:18 PM 1189 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds - 27/05/2010 09:16:21 PM 1187 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo..... - 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM 1164 Views
Doesn't make sense - 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM 1201 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it..... - 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM 1112 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM* - 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM 770 Views
There is a quote that refutes this... - 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM 1234 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory - 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM 1188 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer... - 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM 1221 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that - 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM 1194 Views
Well, I don't think so. - 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM 1212 Views
yet he never gave an answer like this one - 29/05/2010 02:57:35 PM 1274 Views
Again... - 29/05/2010 03:09:06 PM 1282 Views
Taking things NO - 29/05/2010 03:12:24 PM 1242 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. - 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM 1075 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him - 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM 1074 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM* - 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM 1139 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books" - 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM 1110 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM* - 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM 1125 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM* - 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM 1085 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM* - 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM 748 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books - 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM 1030 Views
I'm relieved then... - 07/06/2010 12:13:58 PM 1038 Views
it's nearly as simplistic as knowing Graendal did it - 07/06/2010 12:48:42 PM 1169 Views
Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM 1358 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he. - 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM 1207 Views
That's what I've always thought as well. - 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM 1129 Views
That's always been my theory too - 29/05/2010 10:18:30 PM 1240 Views
*nods* - 29/05/2010 11:23:18 PM 1242 Views
Re: That's always been my theory too - 30/05/2010 07:35:50 AM 1156 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised"..... - 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM 1127 Views
That's why I said "I think" and offered my opinion. - 01/06/2010 09:46:09 PM 1168 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity - 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM 1149 Views
That is simply false. - 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM 1220 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only" - 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM 1290 Views
Of course, it is false - 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM 1202 Views
Here are the quotes - 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM 1136 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM* - 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM 745 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to - 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM 1050 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM* - 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM 615 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM* - 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM 803 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. - 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM 1204 Views
Well... - 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM 1187 Views
Logic - 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM 1149 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there... - 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM 1155 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM* - 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM 773 Views
It's good that Etzel sticks to his guns - 06/06/2010 04:42:01 PM 1261 Views
OMG, Taim and Mesaana were getting it on in the pantry - 06/06/2010 09:49:57 PM 1139 Views
That reminds me... - 19/06/2010 04:46:58 AM 1155 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM* - 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM 1196 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is - 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM 1142 Views
Yeah... - 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM 1254 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over - 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM 1200 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM* - 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM 1347 Views
No they show that she is deliberate! - 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM 1231 Views
That are just semantics - 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM 1290 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH? - 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM 1170 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes... - 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM 1156 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point? - 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM 1222 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? - 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM 1266 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? - 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM 1230 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it... - 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM 1299 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled - 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM 1312 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said. - 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM 1053 Views
um no it's not - 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM 1145 Views
It's told after that... - 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM 1112 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place - 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM 1257 Views
Yeah... - 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM 1183 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ... - 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM 1199 Views
Ah, whatever... - 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM 1122 Views
We are on the exact same page - 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM 1154 Views
Re: We are on the exact same page - 07/06/2010 05:52:37 PM 1258 Views
LMAO - 07/06/2010 06:07:16 PM 1607 Views
I promised Etzel long ago... - 19/06/2010 04:49:11 AM 1167 Views

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