The question was always only, who directly killed Asmo by his hands in that scene. IMO, Slayer did this. It's not erroneous to assume then, that he was hired by a Forsaken to do that.
Indeed, except that you use the evidence of Graendal as some of the concrete evidence for your theory.
It isn't that important for my theory, because this rather deals with the question who hired Slayer, if he was the direct killer of Asmo. Not directly with the identity of the one who actually did it, though one could call it an indirect clue in LoC, as RJ does.
So Slayer would attack Asmodean head on? Despite the fact that I've shown you that he'd only attack Rand in his sleep in a neutralizing city, you still believe he'd attack one of the original thirteen directly? Pfft...
Yes, I think so. Surprise, opportunity & timing are the keys to manage it.
He ambushed Rand while he was sleeping in a city where Rand couldn't channel! That's like saying that a man can kill a lion if the lion has no legs, and teeth and is drugged. Therefore he must have killed that able-bodied lying dead over there.
Slayer offered, though, to try killing Rand again, though it was very possible that Rand isn't in Far Madding anymore.
Except that even if Asmodean was that moronic, Slayer would not be. He's mentioned that he only bows to the Forsaken, implying that they are the greatest threats he knows, and yet we are to believe he attacks one of them head on with poisoned daggers using surprise. That's like betting on the lottery. Worst of all, to think that any of the thirteen would go pale is utter nonsense. Moridin mentions Slayer to them in WH and it hardly stirs a breeze. 'Oooh, the lethal killer is after Fain'... not really. They're much more concerned about other things.
Asmo lost his Chosen status at the end of TSR. And if a real Chosen orders Slayer to kill the betrayer, he naturally would. Besides, the Forsaken are naturally arrogant, they usually don't even have much respect for each other.
Which you can't base on anything, except a single paragraph that heavily insinuates that it was a crime of opportunity.
If it was as simply as you and the others think, RJ wouldn't need to write an extensive note about the murder with all details and what lead to it, and certainly more people had sent/told RJ the right answer.
The idea that Graendal did it is in my eyes a typical bandwagon effect. Although not much indicates that Graendal is the killer before LoC, people just accept it as the obvious answer, because it seems comfortable. But if one actually looks at the mystery, Graendal simply doesn't make much sense.
That said, I still think that Graendal is the best suspect after Slayer, because the other candidates fit even less than Graendal.
An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds
27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM
- 2466 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery....
27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM
- 1200 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer...
28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM
- 1010 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments
28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM
- 850 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM*
28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM
- 592 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM*
29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM
- 551 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin
29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM
- 1001 Views
Far-fetched, IMO
27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM
- 1314 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer
27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM
- 990 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so!
27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM
- 1083 Views
Bah, hogwash!
27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM
- 959 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash!
27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM
- 1022 Views
The point is...
28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM
- 1017 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler
28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM
- 1076 Views
As is Slayer
28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM
- 946 Views
There is no evidence of this at all
28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM
- 921 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys
28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM
- 894 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say....
28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM
- 980 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't
27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM
- 1121 Views
We often see...
27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM
- 988 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious
27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM
- 1072 Views
Indeed
28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM
- 922 Views
Well...
28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM
- 975 Views
Re: Well...
28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM
- 983 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above
28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM
- 922 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex!
28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM
- 965 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense
28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM
- 917 Views
Re: Well...
28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM
- 1094 Views
No...
28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM
- 1017 Views
let's try this another way
28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM
- 1010 Views
The main problem with Graendal is...
28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM
- 926 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is...
28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM
- 1067 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal.
28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM
- 1094 Views
RJ used the expression...
29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM
- 905 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself
29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
- 1024 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer
27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM
- 942 Views
Couple of questions
27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM
- 964 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO!
27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM
- 841 Views
Hmmm
27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM
- 952 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves
27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM
- 862 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that.
27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM
- 936 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly
27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM
- 1015 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM*
27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM
- 507 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM
- 978 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM
- 949 Views
But look...
28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM
- 984 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved
28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM
- 890 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM
- 935 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM
- 953 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM
- 1013 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM
- 873 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM*
28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM
- 924 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH
28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM
- 956 Views
???
28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM
- 926 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM*
28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM
- 941 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT
28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM
- 734 Views
Indeed
28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM
- 885 Views
Re: Indeed
28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM
- 837 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM
- 897 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM
- 848 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO
02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM
- 1055 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM*
02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM
- 623 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot?
19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM
- 757 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM
- 975 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM
- 1166 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM
- 663 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM
- 1106 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo.....
28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM
- 865 Views
Doesn't make sense
28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM
- 902 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it.....
29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM
- 843 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM*
29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM
- 564 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM*
28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM
- 615 Views
There is a quote that refutes this...
28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM
- 951 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes.
29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM
- 890 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM*
29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM
- 579 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever
28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM
- 981 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM*
28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM
- 668 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory
29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM
- 859 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer...
29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM
- 936 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that
29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM
- 892 Views
Well, I don't think so.
29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM
- 903 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM
- 787 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him
06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM
- 790 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM*
06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM
- 834 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books"
06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM
- 799 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM*
06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM
- 877 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM*
06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM
- 792 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM*
07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM
- 613 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books
07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM
- 727 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he.
29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM
- 903 Views
That's what I've always thought as well.
29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM
- 821 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised".....
01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM
- 845 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity
01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM
- 864 Views
That is simply false.
02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM
- 901 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only"
02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM
- 972 Views
Of course, it is false
02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM
- 891 Views
Here are the quotes
02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM
- 828 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM*
02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM
- 618 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to
02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM
- 750 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM*
02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM
- 466 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM*
02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM
- 669 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM
- 925 Views
Well...
06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM
- 917 Views
Logic
06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM
- 861 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there...
06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM
- 868 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM*
06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM
- 633 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM*
07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM
- 909 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is
07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM
- 854 Views
Yeah...
07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM
- 915 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over
07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM
- 903 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM*
07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM
- 825 Views
No they show that she is deliberate!
07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM
- 928 Views
That are just semantics
07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM
- 1005 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH?
07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM
- 886 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes...
07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM
- 850 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point?
07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM
- 934 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
- 978 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM
- 945 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it...
07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM
- 896 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled
07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM
- 1005 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said.
07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM
- 779 Views
um no it's not
07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM
- 858 Views
It's told after that...
07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM
- 823 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place
07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM
- 1012 Views
Yeah...
07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM
- 905 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ...
07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM
- 893 Views
Ah, whatever...
07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM
- 802 Views
We are on the exact same page
07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM
- 883 Views