Because of your statement, the phrase "a murder of opportunity" - which was never actually used by RJ! - "more than implies that the killer did NOT plan it." This is completely wrong.
Means, motive and opportunity are typical criterias in any murder, irrespective of the question if the murder was planned or not. It's also false that if opportunity is the most important criteria in a specific murder, it must mean that this murder wasn't planned at all, but just some kind of unplanned accident or chance.
To get a better understanding of what we are actually talking about, you should read the Wikipedia article about it [link below].
I cite:
"In US Criminal law, means, motive, and opportunity is a popular cultural summation of the three aspects of a crime needed to convince a jury of guilt in a criminal proceeding. Respectively, they refer to: the ability of the defendant to commit the crime (means), the reason the defendant had to commit the crime (motive), and whether or not the defendant had the opportunity to commit the crime (opportunity)."
And the corresponding example:
"If a criminal shot someone with a handgun and took his/her money when the victim was in an isolated, secluded area at night, the means would be the handgun, the motive financial (i.e., the money they stole), and the opportunity the fact that it would be unlikely someone else would witness or stop them."
So, the mentioning of opportunity as being important by RJ doesn't tell us at all that the murder wasn't planned.
As said before, some people just claim that RJ's usage of the term "road kill" would prove that the murder was basically an accident. This is wrong as well, though, since we don't know the context in which RJ mentioned this. It's at least as likely that RJ just wanted to paraphrase his reasons as an author to take the redundant character Asmo from the story with "road kill". Otherwise, if RJ actually wanted to give such a major clue to the murder, it could even have the meaning of "political road kill", which would indicate that Asmo was killed on the orders of one of his Forsaken rivals.
Means, motive and opportunity are typical criterias in any murder, irrespective of the question if the murder was planned or not. It's also false that if opportunity is the most important criteria in a specific murder, it must mean that this murder wasn't planned at all, but just some kind of unplanned accident or chance.
To get a better understanding of what we are actually talking about, you should read the Wikipedia article about it [link below].
I cite:
"In US Criminal law, means, motive, and opportunity is a popular cultural summation of the three aspects of a crime needed to convince a jury of guilt in a criminal proceeding. Respectively, they refer to: the ability of the defendant to commit the crime (means), the reason the defendant had to commit the crime (motive), and whether or not the defendant had the opportunity to commit the crime (opportunity)."
And the corresponding example:
"If a criminal shot someone with a handgun and took his/her money when the victim was in an isolated, secluded area at night, the means would be the handgun, the motive financial (i.e., the money they stole), and the opportunity the fact that it would be unlikely someone else would witness or stop them."
So, the mentioning of opportunity as being important by RJ doesn't tell us at all that the murder wasn't planned.
As said before, some people just claim that RJ's usage of the term "road kill" would prove that the murder was basically an accident. This is wrong as well, though, since we don't know the context in which RJ mentioned this. It's at least as likely that RJ just wanted to paraphrase his reasons as an author to take the redundant character Asmo from the story with "road kill". Otherwise, if RJ actually wanted to give such a major clue to the murder, it could even have the meaning of "political road kill", which would indicate that Asmo was killed on the orders of one of his Forsaken rivals.
This message last edited by Etzel on 02/06/2010 at 12:13:51 PM
An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds
- 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM
2732 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery....
- 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM
1439 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer...
- 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM
1240 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments
- 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM
1104 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM*
- 28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM
702 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM*
- 29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM
680 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin
- 29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM
1245 Views
Far-fetched, IMO
- 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM
1551 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer
- 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM
1233 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so!
- 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM
1350 Views
Bah, hogwash!
- 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM
1194 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash!
- 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM
1222 Views
The point is...
- 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM
1279 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler
- 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM
1329 Views
As is Slayer
- 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM
1195 Views
There is no evidence of this at all
- 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM
1150 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys
- 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM
1132 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say....
- 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM
1227 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't
- 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM
1379 Views
We often see...
- 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM
1229 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious
- 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM
1315 Views
Indeed
- 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM
1168 Views
Well...
- 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM
1240 Views
Re: Well...
- 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM
1234 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above
- 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM
1161 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex!
- 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM
1217 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense
- 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM
1179 Views
Re: Well...
- 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM
1347 Views
No...
- 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM
1239 Views
let's try this another way
- 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM
1231 Views
The main problem with Graendal is...
- 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM
1150 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is...
- 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM
1300 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal.
- 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM
1374 Views
RJ used the expression...
- 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM
1160 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself
- 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
1261 Views
- 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
1261 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer
- 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM
1212 Views
Couple of questions
- 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM
1229 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO!
- 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM
1068 Views
Hmmm
- 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM
1198 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves
- 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM
1095 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that.
- 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM
1174 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly
- 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM
1262 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM*
- 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM
609 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
- 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM
1214 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
- 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM
1197 Views
But look...
- 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM
1214 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved
- 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM
1113 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
- 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM
1184 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
- 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM
1207 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM
1237 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM
1119 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM
1184 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH
- 28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM
1188 Views
???
- 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM
1152 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM*
- 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM
1184 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT
- 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM
953 Views
Indeed
- 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM
1103 Views
Re: Indeed
- 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM
1086 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM
1120 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM
1101 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO
- 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM
1292 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM*
- 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM
735 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot?
- 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM
998 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
- 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM
1196 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
- 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM
1427 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
- 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM
912 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
- 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM
1337 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo.....
- 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM
1108 Views
Doesn't make sense
- 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM
1135 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it.....
- 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM
1062 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM*
- 29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM
688 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more
*NM*
- 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM
742 Views
*NM*
- 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM
742 Views
There is a quote that refutes this...
- 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM
1186 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes.
- 29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM
1139 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM*
- 29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM
691 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever
- 28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM
1203 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM*
- 28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM
786 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory
- 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM
1126 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer...
- 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM
1154 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that
- 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM
1131 Views
Well, I don't think so.
- 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM
1159 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
- 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM
1011 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him
- 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM
1016 Views
- 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM
1016 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM*
- 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM
1078 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books"
- 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM
1042 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM*
- 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM
1068 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM*
- 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM
1030 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM*
- 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM
725 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books
- 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM
974 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he.
- 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM
1148 Views
That's what I've always thought as well.
- 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM
1067 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised".....
- 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM
1068 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity
- 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM
1085 Views
That is simply false.
- 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM
1165 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only"
- 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM
1238 Views
Of course, it is false
- 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM
1146 Views
Here are the quotes
- 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM
1077 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM
722 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to
- 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM
981 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out.
*NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM
587 Views
*NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM
587 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM
778 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
- 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM
1149 Views
Well...
- 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM
1137 Views
Logic
- 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM
1098 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there...
- 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM
1097 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there...
- 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM
1097 Views
I'm just being a smartass
*NM*
- 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM
750 Views
*NM*
- 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM
750 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense.
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM
1144 Views
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM
1144 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is
- 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM
1086 Views
- 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM
1086 Views
Yeah...
- 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM
1200 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over
- 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM
1150 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful...
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM
1196 Views
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM
1196 Views
No they show that she is deliberate!
- 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM
1175 Views
That are just semantics
- 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM
1240 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH?
- 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM
1119 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes...
- 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM
1102 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point?
- 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM
1164 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
- 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
1209 Views
- 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
1209 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
- 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM
1177 Views
- 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM
1177 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it...
- 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM
1245 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled
- 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM
1255 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said.
- 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM
1004 Views
um no it's not
- 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM
1091 Views
It's told after that...
- 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM
1059 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place
- 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM
1203 Views
Yeah...
- 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM
1128 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ...
- 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM
1131 Views
Ah, whatever...
- 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM
1059 Views
- 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM
1059 Views
We are on the exact same page
- 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM
1106 Views
