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Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) redhand Send a noteboard - 07/09/2009 05:09:38 AM

Eh, he went even further than I take it. I don't think Egwene would gentle him before Tarmon Gai'don. But if he survived TG, I don't think she'd hesitate to gentle him and put him to trial for his "atrocities" against the Aes Sedai so she could get all the nations under her thumb completely.
Hence the value of Elayne. For ego reasons if nothing else, she cannot let the Prince-Consort of Andor and father of the Daughter-heir be subjected to a foreign authority. And with all these conveniently located Asha'man who are specifically trained in One Power combat, and tend to look for excuses to prove their equality or superiority to Aes Sedai, and who probably crave acceptance in society on the level Aes Sedai enjoy...well, any overt action on Egwene's part against Rand would be to the cause of the nations freeing themselves from White Tower hegemony as the expedition to seize the powder at Lexington and Concord was to the American cause of independence. I think that is the purpose of Egwene - however she might agree with the idea, she will prevent the Tower from doing this sort of thing, and preserve it from overreaching. And she'll get the credit from her fans here for her moral stance, when in truth it is simply recognition that she can't get away with it.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.
That's what my pastor used to say.


What difference does it make if he's ignoring his pain or if he does the Aiel thing and "sings" while he's hacked into itty bitty pieces? He's dead either way. He suffers either way. So who cares whether he "feels" the pain or not? This whole thing is like refusing a terminal patient morphine because you want him to "feel" his last few moments of life and think he should suck it up and "love" the pain.
Except Rand is not a terminal patient on a hospital bed, he is the only one who can bring the plane in for a safe landing, and he is becoming hooked on morphine, and has moved on to seeking stronger drugs which will distort his reflexes, perceptions and bodily functions, and cause him to do something stupid, crazy or indifferent to collateral damage. Like maybe cause a loss of cabin pressure, because he's so high he misses the warning lights, and as a result, safely lands a plane full of bodies.

and accepts that he's going to have even more pain before it's over with. At the end of the chapter, it's obvious that he's ready to get on with it and die already. I think it's a bit asinine to expect, much less want, someone to do a happy dance at the fact that he's getting hacked apart and dying to save a bunch of thankless jerks who either get off on him suffering, want to leash him like an animal so they can stab him to death themselves in order to "win", or want to see him dead and gone. That he's willing, and ready, to do it should be good enough. To want more than that is just inhumane and mean - to me, it'd be no different than telling a woman she's about to be gang raped and gutted alive
Except she's crossing her legs as tightly as she can, rather than taking up arms to defend herself, and incidentally the next victim of the gang. Rand isn't offering a noble sacrifice, he's looking for an easy way out. He has to confront that Dark One to prevent him from destroying the world, and he has shown more interest in getting it over with than actually protecting the world. His whole attitude that everyone can go f*** themselves once he's dead is completely against the spirit of what he has to do. Aridhol might have turned themselves into a rabid beast to fight the Shadow, but Rand is simply going to let the Shadow kill him for the same reason - neither can stand the price that is needed to keep up the fight. Do you think the men of Manetheren marched to the bank of the Tarendrelle thinking "Thank the Light! We can finally get killed and give up all of this marching and fighting and eating crappy food and taking injuries and losing friends and doing strenuous physical labor and living in squallor to protect people who mock us for going out of our way to do what is right instead of what is most advantageous for us!"

You cite the problem - Rand's life is a burden. Giving up a burden is not a sacrifice, and he cannot sacrifice what he does not value. You can't buy the salvation of the world with a bad check. Cadsuane & Sorilea want to put something into his account before it bounces.


I agree with cannoli in general here. The Asha'man will achieve parity with AS sooner or later. It is like a powder keg, and any excuse to start the process can result in huge fighting.

It is only possible to threaten someone if they have something to loss to begin with. So far, the motivation for Ashaman to fight for the Light has been purely moral, and that is really weak when they face true danger. To counter Taim influence, the Black Tower needs to have the same kind of political and economical power as the White Tower, and to stand on its own, instead of at the grace of the Dragon Reborn.

An army is never cheap, nuclear army especially so. Trying to build an army on the cheap will surely result in the army defect at the worst possible time.
This message last edited by redhand on 07/09/2009 at 05:10:22 AM
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Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 05/09/2009 05:23:47 PM 6245 Views
For all of those whining about it not sounding like RJ: - 05/09/2009 05:47:07 PM 2108 Views
Agreed. If anything, it's a tribute to RJ - 05/09/2009 06:17:36 PM 1971 Views
You're forgetting one thing. - 06/09/2009 12:13:03 AM 2132 Views
And if he were to off Egwene? What would your opinion be? *NM* - 07/09/2009 05:38:36 AM 1150 Views
He dislikes Sanderson's prose. Plot content is irrelevant here. *NM* - 08/09/2009 06:44:42 PM 1130 Views
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not impressed - 05/09/2009 06:24:02 PM 2084 Views
all recap, no meat - 14/09/2009 12:33:35 PM 1762 Views
Pretty good. - 05/09/2009 07:35:41 PM 45506 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 05/09/2009 09:13:44 PM 2079 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 06/09/2009 01:19:22 AM 2309 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 06/09/2009 08:08:38 AM 1960 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 13/09/2009 01:22:22 PM 1675 Views
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because there should totaly be massive plot development in the first chapter - 05/09/2009 08:29:18 PM 1843 Views
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On the other hand... - 05/09/2009 08:58:21 PM 1900 Views
Re: I'm tired of passive story telling. - 05/09/2009 10:42:57 PM 1754 Views
Which escape? - 05/09/2009 11:10:01 PM 1757 Views
I'm tired of mindless readers - 06/09/2009 01:54:14 AM 1899 Views
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Your best yet Dom! *NM* - 06/09/2009 02:04:40 PM 1066 Views
Re: I'm tired of mindless readers - 07/09/2009 04:39:36 AM 1759 Views
Re: I'm tired of mindless readers - 07/09/2009 10:42:29 PM 1741 Views
I was over critical. - 06/09/2009 04:56:48 AM 1698 Views
It's been happening since Book IV btw. - 16/09/2009 05:30:52 PM 1537 Views
A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 05/09/2009 09:34:44 PM 2023 Views
I think Lews Therin's comments to Rand were the most hugely significant part of the chapter. - 06/09/2009 01:15:05 AM 1725 Views
I don't really agree... - 06/09/2009 03:50:08 AM 1718 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 06/09/2009 02:52:47 AM 2442 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 06/09/2009 07:08:08 AM 1682 Views
Just answer one question... - 06/09/2009 07:53:12 AM 2199 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 06/09/2009 10:31:20 AM 2261 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 07/09/2009 05:09:38 AM 1741 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 08/09/2009 10:19:13 PM 1732 Views
If I may make a few somewhat irrelevant interjections... - 09/09/2009 04:44:45 AM 1669 Views
Re: If I may make a few somewhat irrelevant interjections... - 14/09/2009 04:46:29 PM 1793 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 10/09/2009 06:20:56 AM 2032 Views
On Egwene... - 10/09/2009 04:33:58 PM 1733 Views
Nynaeve - 08/09/2009 05:43:43 AM 1845 Views
Re: Nynaeve - 08/09/2009 08:06:20 AM 1630 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 07/09/2009 04:41:47 AM 1815 Views
Answers, short, long and longer. - 07/09/2009 11:27:53 PM 1771 Views
I think you missed some things. (spoilers) - 16/09/2009 05:21:43 PM 1514 Views
People who still have their wotmania SNs draw mine.... - 21/09/2009 05:25:15 PM 1574 Views
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First thought...a typo! ner vous = nervous. *NM* - 05/09/2009 09:55:28 PM 1151 Views
I loved it! - 05/09/2009 10:52:17 PM 1776 Views
I didn't like the opening sequence. - 05/09/2009 10:58:17 PM 1818 Views
Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 06/09/2009 12:02:13 AM 1772 Views
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Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 07/09/2009 09:08:21 AM 1711 Views
This is what RJ said. - 06/09/2009 12:47:26 AM 1726 Views
Re: This is what RJ said. - 06/09/2009 01:24:36 AM 1950 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 06/09/2009 05:12:25 PM 1592 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 06/09/2009 07:20:45 PM 1594 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 07/09/2009 04:05:09 AM 1612 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 07/09/2009 09:33:25 AM 1628 Views
I found it...interesting --spoilers-- - 06/09/2009 01:33:11 AM 1929 Views
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Re: I found it...interesting --spoilers-- - 06/09/2009 02:54:17 PM 1821 Views
I'm excited. (Here be spoilers) - 06/09/2009 03:29:59 AM 1712 Views
six questions and nine statements - 06/09/2009 04:47:52 AM 1773 Views
Re: Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 06/09/2009 04:51:04 AM 1726 Views
Re: Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 06/09/2009 07:30:53 AM 1774 Views
I liked it - 06/09/2009 07:58:09 AM 1723 Views
Some questions... - 06/09/2009 08:04:30 AM 1719 Views
Re: Some questions... - 06/09/2009 08:11:08 AM 1829 Views
Re: Some questions... - 06/09/2009 08:53:20 AM 1720 Views
Re: I liked it - 06/09/2009 09:55:41 PM 1731 Views
Theory: Rand and Egwene. What is up? - 06/09/2009 07:59:58 AM 2622 Views
Also - 06/09/2009 08:24:45 AM 1726 Views
A simpler answer - 06/09/2009 03:04:04 PM 1812 Views
Really? - 06/09/2009 03:38:59 PM 1643 Views
are we already at the location of the book cover? - 06/09/2009 11:49:06 AM 1688 Views
Re: are we already at the location of the book cover? - 06/09/2009 02:43:24 PM 1697 Views
I still think it's Aviendha - 07/09/2009 05:14:50 AM 1553 Views
Omniscient narrator not neutral enough, for one... - 06/09/2009 04:17:51 PM 1884 Views
Yip - 06/09/2009 04:29:40 PM 1810 Views
Yes... - 06/09/2009 04:39:00 PM 1672 Views
I totally agree...the narration was the biggest put-off for me - 09/09/2009 09:51:52 PM 1528 Views
Two Things - 07/09/2009 12:25:31 AM 1729 Views
Moiraine - 07/09/2009 01:19:08 AM 1813 Views
The Moiraine thing is dumb - 09/09/2009 09:53:51 PM 1691 Views
She fell through the doorway with Lanfear - 09/09/2009 10:18:55 PM 1632 Views
uh - 09/09/2009 10:57:17 PM 1663 Views
Timeline? - 07/09/2009 05:10:16 AM 1712 Views
Re: Timeline? - 07/09/2009 05:52:50 PM 1665 Views
So what chapter symbol is it going to have? *NM* - 07/09/2009 08:09:54 AM 990 Views
the dragon in COT chap 23 ornaments *NM* - 07/09/2009 01:28:58 PM 983 Views
The Seanchan are up to something - 07/09/2009 10:26:23 AM 1704 Views
Red stone doorway. - 07/09/2009 03:27:22 PM 1582 Views
The whole thing was explained by Rand in KoD. So no, not new. - 07/09/2009 06:35:01 PM 1585 Views
No - 07/09/2009 07:57:57 PM 1578 Views
Questions, Comments Thoughts and Theories about tGS - 07/09/2009 09:09:05 PM 1768 Views
My thoughts are that the main page is being crowded by too many duplicate threads - 07/09/2009 10:23:41 PM 1716 Views
Hrm... - 08/09/2009 05:28:19 AM 1780 Views
Enjoyed it - 08/09/2009 01:35:03 AM 1695 Views
Ready for More - 08/09/2009 04:25:19 PM 1717 Views
... - 08/09/2009 07:24:46 PM 1639 Views
Not sure what I expected, but not this... - 09/09/2009 04:07:10 PM 1722 Views
I know why Rand is mad at Egwene...read inside to find out - 11/09/2009 03:15:00 AM 1767 Views
It's his increasing paranoia and dehumanization. - 15/09/2009 03:03:53 AM 1677 Views
Re: Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 16/09/2009 06:20:14 AM 1464 Views
Semirhage isn't scaring anyone - 28/09/2009 02:32:34 PM 1994 Views
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Will the Chosen pass that edict down or just not act themselves? - 28/09/2009 10:29:53 PM 1568 Views

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