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Good point... Shannow Send a noteboard - 10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM
is weaker than Moiraine.

Meaning whether we use your scale or mine, there needs to be a non-strength explanation for why Barasine can hold Egwene and Amys cannot.


Or maybe you're trying to put a triangular block into a square hole.

It's a screwed-up half-ass magic system that has huge flaws in it. Amys can't do it properly, but we're expected to eat the theory that Barasine or Katerine can at a much later stage in the books when Egwene is getting really skilled and powerful. Sometimes I can't believe we give this stuff the time of day. It's clearly got huge errors in it.




RJ's answer would no doubt have been that Barasine has a shielding talent, or some such unprovable thing which he used to cover his inconsistencies from time to time.



Silviana says that she's going to replace the Sisters in the morning with two new ones. Does the whole Tower have the Talent?

Bah... what a waste of time.


Did RJ revise the One Power system towards the latter part of the series? Say around books 9 and 10? That would coincide with the Cleansing, where smaller circles suddenly matched very powerful Forsaken?
This message last edited by Shannow on 10/06/2010 at 09:20:07 PM
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Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM 2493 Views
Some good RAFOs here Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:31:56 PM 1226 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:36:55 PM 1139 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking! Logain - 10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM 1423 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM 1260 Views
See the question again man! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM 1238 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM 1314 Views
How? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:41 PM 1250 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM 1250 Views
Think logically for a moment... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM 1075 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM 1379 Views
Aviendha did in FoH... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM 1074 Views
Nope! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM 1249 Views
Your quotes are faulty Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM 1245 Views
In what sense though? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM 1267 Views
Forkroot Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM 1215 Views
Again... later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM 1068 Views
What do you mean? Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM 1221 Views
See below... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM 1109 Views
Re: See below... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM 1182 Views
I just did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM 1027 Views
Well then we disagree Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM 1227 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM 1062 Views
Ah, you mean later later ... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM 1151 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM 1249 Views
Yes I know Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM 1249 Views
I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM 1212 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM 1208 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM 1155 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM 1215 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM 1246 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:29:04 PM 1335 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:47:00 PM 1126 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe? Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM 1058 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM 1173 Views
In that case, there is no problem... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM 1288 Views
But that isn't what the text says... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM 1007 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then? Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM 1299 Views
She also says Egwene is Aes Sedai in the same sentence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:25:16 PM 1279 Views
Yeah, both were RJ Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1122 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM 1216 Views
Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM 1224 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM 1064 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM 1216 Views
Re: Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:43:41 PM 1079 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:50:23 PM 1227 Views
I haven't refuted? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:53:17 PM 1267 Views
Here's what is clear: Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM 1117 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM 1091 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM 1036 Views
At least we agree on one thing Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM 1133 Views
No... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:32:06 PM 1108 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:43:59 PM 1230 Views
fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:57:25 PM 1050 Views
Re: Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:12:29 PM 1141 Views
Re: fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:34:28 PM 1185 Views
Thought on this darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:09:29 PM 1061 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3 darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM 948 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM 1070 Views
That was kind of my point... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:19:23 PM 793 Views
of course Katerine would have complained darius_sedai - 12/06/2010 12:53:31 PM 1176 Views
The rate forkroot wears off? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM 1177 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all! fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM 1069 Views
Typos, screwed up what I meant Rurouni_Kenshin - 17/06/2010 02:31:50 AM 1072 Views
You are... fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 04:32:47 AM 1298 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM 976 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM 1080 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM 1081 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM 1073 Views
Easy... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM 1038 Views
What has that got to do with it? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM 1224 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half.. Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM 1144 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM 1261 Views
I can agree with that. Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM 1029 Views
How can you agree with it? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:13:55 PM 1232 Views
I'm thinking Berowin here... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:16:41 PM 1243 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:18:19 PM 1100 Views
... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM 1023 Views
Agreed, but... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM 1187 Views
Re: Agreed, but... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM 986 Views
Good point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM 1194 Views
Or, you know, you're wrong? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:55 PM 1071 Views
Re: Good point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:28:02 PM 1260 Views
We've had this discussion before darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:59:34 PM 1210 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM 1056 Views
The Bell Curve fits perfectly if one simple fact is true... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:31:31 PM 1027 Views
Or, you know, you can stop misinterpreting Aviendha... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:40:05 PM 1143 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM 1003 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM 1011 Views
Re: Uhhh? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM 999 Views
DUDE! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM 1023 Views
Re: DUDE! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:09:11 PM 997 Views
I explained... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:27:44 PM 1017 Views
Re: I explained... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:45:58 PM 1180 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM 1670 Views
That's fairly simple, actually... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM 1250 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM 1221 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM* fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM 576 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM 1312 Views
You are making a couple of mistakes darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:28:41 PM 1137 Views
You're missing an important point... fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:10:55 PM 1107 Views
Yes, what do you mean? You are actually proving our point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:10:50 PM 978 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM 1050 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM 1066 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:06:53 PM 1044 Views
Simply this... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:13:42 PM 1069 Views
Very poor evidence Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM 1192 Views
No it isn't... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:18:09 PM 1137 Views
Re: No it isn't... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:32:17 PM 1203 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM 1130 Views
The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined... Shannow - 11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM 1170 Views
Here's the problem with that... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM 1031 Views
Linked circles are more effective than individual channelers... Shannow - 11/06/2010 01:57:43 PM 1151 Views
That much stronger? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:06:18 PM 1206 Views
On this we agree. darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:34:45 PM 1014 Views
I think you are misreading her. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM 1019 Views
Bingo *NM* Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:51:29 PM 674 Views
Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM* Logain - 10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM 621 Views
Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM 1224 Views
Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM 1082 Views
I don't agree Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM 1066 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM 1260 Views
Hmm... Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM 992 Views
Because of the question to which she responded... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM 994 Views
Re: Because of the question to which she responded... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM 1159 Views
Without contradicting the latter... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM 1059 Views
Ah well Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM 1031 Views
Which is even more evidence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:23:28 PM 1152 Views
Dude Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:30:57 PM 1222 Views
It isn't omission fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 10:54:47 PM 1172 Views
omg not this again *NM* BlackAdder - 10/06/2010 07:52:26 PM 1156 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM 1259 Views
Nope... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM 1124 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM 1160 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55? Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM 1022 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM 962 Views
Amys can't hold her properly Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM 987 Views
What about later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM 1016 Views
No she didn't darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM 1129 Views
No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM 1190 Views
Re: No she didn't what? darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM 1028 Views
Re: No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 06:02:57 PM 1150 Views
you are arguing in a circle darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:31:19 PM 1503 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM 1127 Views
That's simple... fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM 1110 Views
Re: That's simple... Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM 1059 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it. fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM 1239 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body. Gher - 10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM 1083 Views
But they didn't look alike anyway. *NM* Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:59:35 PM 669 Views
Eh, yeah. Gher - 12/06/2010 08:24:10 PM 1029 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new beetnemesis - 10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM 1190 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM 1271 Views
They RAFO way too much. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:56 AM 1007 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM 1030 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM 1290 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second... Logain - 10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM 1039 Views
That still proves my point... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM 1215 Views
Re: That still proves my point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM 1076 Views
Then why... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM 1168 Views
Re: Then why... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM 1050 Views
God, what stupidity! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM 1015 Views
Re: God, what stupidity! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM 1115 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM 1058 Views
Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100. Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM 1364 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM 1195 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM 1134 Views
You're pretty much agreeing with me, you know? fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:32:44 PM 1113 Views
Yes. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/06/2010 10:31:00 PM 1209 Views
Re: Just to make things clear on the strength thing... Bored - 14/06/2010 11:21:31 PM 1394 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:48:43 PM 997 Views
Also interesting... Etzel - 10/06/2010 09:38:27 PM 1162 Views
I'm even more confused (parallel worlds and the Pattern) entyti - 10/06/2010 09:48:17 PM 1137 Views
Nah,... DomA - 11/06/2010 11:38:20 AM 1097 Views
Fascinating! entyti - 13/06/2010 02:30:42 AM 1217 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM 1103 Views
I think she's saving that info for her WoT Encyclopedia. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:54:38 AM 1192 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. TaskmasterJack - 11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM 1203 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. DomA - 11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM 1176 Views
I agree Etzel - 11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM 1276 Views
Re: I agree TaskmasterJack - 12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM 1043 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out" Etzel - 12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM 1093 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM 599 Views
Actually she said "No"... *NM* Etzel - 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM 694 Views
I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question. TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM 1074 Views
Yeah, sorry for the rolly-eyed smiley! Was a bit mean... Etzel - 13/06/2010 09:19:13 AM 1102 Views
I agree with Jack and Sidious and not with you. Tom - 11/06/2010 03:20:30 PM 1188 Views
Well, on the Thom question... Etzel - 11/06/2010 08:25:09 AM 1051 Views
Yeah Sidious - 11/06/2010 08:26:33 AM 1161 Views
Re: Yeah darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 12:25:21 AM 1025 Views
Eh, practically useless. callandor1000 - 14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM 1026 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM 564 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though. callandor1000 - 17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM 1614 Views
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