Meaning that you place them much higher than I do.
So, if you are correct, then Rand probably broke through a shield that is what, 40+40+40=120 in strength?
Or even if you go lower, and it is 30+30+30=90, that still means that Rand was roughly equal in strength to the combined strength of the 3 sisters who were shielding him. Right?
So how is this possible, if a much weaker channeler can keep a stronger channeler shielded, if the victim is already cut off from the Source?
Your argument is that Rand was able to do this because it is more difficult to shield someone of the opposite sex.
Now that's fine, as long as you hold the same argument if the roles are reversed, and it is now a man trying to hold a woman shielded. Again, it should be more difficult for the man to keep them shielded since they are of the opposite sex.
So, if Rand was at 80 when he shielded Egwene and Elayne, and Egwene was at 60 with Elayne at 30, then the two women combined were actually STRONGER than his total strength when he shielded them.
And he was holding both shields at the same time to boot.
And this despite the fact that they are of the opposite sex, and therefore more difficult for him to shield.
So, to summarize, Rand - of strength 90 in LoC, is able to break a shield that exceeds his own strength, but Egwene and Elayne are not able to break shields that clearly have to be weaker than their own combined strength in tSR. This despite Rand holding multiple weaves simultaneously -which would further sap his strength.
For example, let's say Rand at strength 80 is able to weave two shields of 40 and 30 strength respectively. One for Egwene and one for Elayne.
Now, that would mean that Egwene cannot break through Rand's shield of 40, despite being of strength 60 herself at the time, but Rand was able to break through a shield of 90-120 in LoC, despite it matching or exceeding his own strength.
Clearly, Rand's strength advantage is greater than you think it is.
So, if you are correct, then Rand probably broke through a shield that is what, 40+40+40=120 in strength?
Or even if you go lower, and it is 30+30+30=90, that still means that Rand was roughly equal in strength to the combined strength of the 3 sisters who were shielding him. Right?
So how is this possible, if a much weaker channeler can keep a stronger channeler shielded, if the victim is already cut off from the Source?
Your argument is that Rand was able to do this because it is more difficult to shield someone of the opposite sex.
Now that's fine, as long as you hold the same argument if the roles are reversed, and it is now a man trying to hold a woman shielded. Again, it should be more difficult for the man to keep them shielded since they are of the opposite sex.
So, if Rand was at 80 when he shielded Egwene and Elayne, and Egwene was at 60 with Elayne at 30, then the two women combined were actually STRONGER than his total strength when he shielded them.
And he was holding both shields at the same time to boot.
And this despite the fact that they are of the opposite sex, and therefore more difficult for him to shield.
So, to summarize, Rand - of strength 90 in LoC, is able to break a shield that exceeds his own strength, but Egwene and Elayne are not able to break shields that clearly have to be weaker than their own combined strength in tSR. This despite Rand holding multiple weaves simultaneously -which would further sap his strength.
For example, let's say Rand at strength 80 is able to weave two shields of 40 and 30 strength respectively. One for Egwene and one for Elayne.
Now, that would mean that Egwene cannot break through Rand's shield of 40, despite being of strength 60 herself at the time, but Rand was able to break through a shield of 90-120 in LoC, despite it matching or exceeding his own strength.
Clearly, Rand's strength advantage is greater than you think it is.
First off, as you so proudly proclaimed in the other post, the AS strength range is pretty significant. Daigian at 16 would make Moiraine a 48 with an "average sister" a 32, a "weak sister" around 20 and a "strong sister" around 40.
We also know from Cadsuane that typically the weakest sisters end up holding shields (just like all the grunt work). Odds are Rand broke through a shield of no more than 60 power. And as previously stated men have levels of strength above women, meaning Rand would not be merely 80 strength on a female chart he'd be more like 120 at this point. Which fits it the shield of 4 = 80 and you must have about 65% of the strength for an opposite sex shield to hold. He'd be unable to break the 80, but as soon as it dropped he crushed the shield.
Also explains how Semirhage (lets say a 92) was held by 16+40+32 and it being considered "taking precaution". Nynaeve (let's say 95) was held, barely, by 32+32 ... all it took her to break it was a distraction from Lan.
In the end this is an area where raw strength plays a significant role and we can't forget that Rand would be well above the 100 female max.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount
- 10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM
2547 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking!
- 10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM
1475 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength...
- 10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM
1294 Views
See the question again man!
- 10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM
1278 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman...
- 10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM
1344 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing!
- 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM
1284 Views
- 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM
1284 Views
Think logically for a moment...
- 10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM
1106 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine?
- 10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM
1413 Views
Aviendha did in FoH...
- 10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM
1105 Views
Nope!
- 10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM
1295 Views
Your quotes are faulty
- 10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM
1281 Views
In what sense though?
- 10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM
1327 Views
Forkroot
- 10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM
1263 Views
Again... later that night?
- 10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM
1107 Views
What do you mean?
- 10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM
1261 Views
See below...
- 10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM
1151 Views
Re: See below...
- 10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM
1217 Views
I just did.
- 10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM
1078 Views
Well then we disagree
- 10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM
1258 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT!
- 10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM
1093 Views
Ah, you mean later later ...
- 10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM
1192 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know?
- 10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM
1281 Views
Yes I know
- 10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM
1280 Views
I've explained it before in this thread...
- 10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM
1243 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
- 10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM
1253 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
- 10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM
1184 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
- 10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM
1248 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine?
- 10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM
1274 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe?
- 10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM
1092 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ!
- 10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM
1232 Views
In that case, there is no problem...
- 10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM
1334 Views
But that isn't what the text says...
- 10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM
1055 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then?
- 10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM
1332 Views
Yeah, both were RJ
- 10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM
1156 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate.
- 10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM
1260 Views
- 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM
1275 Views
- 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM
1275 Views
Really?
- 10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM
1097 Views
Re: Really?
- 10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM
1251 Views
Here's what is clear:
- 10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM
1147 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove
- 10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM
1125 Views
Dude...
- 10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM
1069 Views
At least we agree on one thing
- 10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM
1169 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3
- 13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM
975 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point
- 11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM
1101 Views
The rate forkroot wears off?
- 16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM
1234 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all!
- 16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM
1103 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this...
- 10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM
1009 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did.
- 10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM
1112 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off...
- 10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM
1113 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield...
- 10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM
1102 Views
Easy...
- 10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM
1075 Views
What has that got to do with it?
- 10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM
1271 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half..
- 10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM
1191 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who...
- 10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM
1301 Views
I can agree with that.
- 10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM
1081 Views
...
- 10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM
1061 Views
Agreed, but...
- 10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM
1226 Views
Re: Agreed, but...
- 10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM
1019 Views
Good point...
- 10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM
1240 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list...
- 10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM
1089 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense
- 10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM
1051 Views
Uhhh?
- 10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM
1045 Views
Re: Uhhh?
- 10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM
1039 Views
DUDE!
- 10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM
1072 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily...
- 10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM
1703 Views
That's fairly simple, actually...
- 10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM
1287 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai...
- 10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM
1264 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM*
- 10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM
599 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right...
- 10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM
1344 Views
You are making a couple of mistakes
- 13/06/2010 02:28:41 PM
1176 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages...
- 10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM
1085 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them...
- 10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM
1097 Views
Very poor evidence
- 10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM
1253 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined
- 11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM
1162 Views
The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined...
- 11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM
1212 Views
Here's the problem with that...
- 11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM
1083 Views
I think you are misreading her.
- 10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM
1051 Views
Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM*
- 10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM
657 Views
Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution.
- 10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM
1252 Views
Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals.
- 11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM
1128 Views
I don't agree
- 10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM
1111 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you.
- 10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM
1319 Views
Hmm...
- 10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM
1040 Views
Because of the question to which she responded...
- 10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM
1029 Views
Re: Because of the question to which she responded...
- 10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM
1190 Views
Without contradicting the latter...
- 10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM
1097 Views
Ah well
- 10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM
1068 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified!
- 10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM
1288 Views
Nope...
- 10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM
1161 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50?
- 10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM
1195 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55?
- 10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM
1068 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys!
- 10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM
993 Views
Amys can't hold her properly
- 10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM
1023 Views
What about later that night?
- 10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM
1054 Views
No she didn't
- 16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM
1161 Views
No she didn't what?
- 16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM
1263 Views
Re: No she didn't what?
- 17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM
1061 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale?
- 16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM
1174 Views
That's simple...
- 16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM
1146 Views
Re: That's simple...
- 16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM
1120 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it.
- 16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM
1273 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body.
- 10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM
1137 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new
- 10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM
1220 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before
- 10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM
1303 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing
- 11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM
1064 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing...
- 10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM
1324 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second...
- 10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM
1078 Views
That still proves my point...
- 10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM
1249 Views
Re: That still proves my point...
- 10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM
1113 Views
Then why...
- 10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM
1207 Views
Re: Then why...
- 10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM
1090 Views
God, what stupidity!
- 10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM
1047 Views
Re: God, what stupidity!
- 10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM
1147 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100.
- 10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM
1085 Views
Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100.
- 10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM
1408 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility...
- 10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM
1227 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations.
- 11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM
1163 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
- 11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM
1154 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
- 11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM
1239 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
- 11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM
1212 Views
I agree
- 11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM
1309 Views
Re: I agree
- 12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM
1073 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out"
- 12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM
1126 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM*
- 13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM
617 Views
Actually she said "No"...
*NM*
- 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM
720 Views
*NM*
- 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM
720 Views
I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question.
- 13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM
1117 Views
Eh, practically useless.
- 14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM
1057 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM*
- 15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM
581 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though.
- 17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM
1645 Views
