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That's exactly how I understood you. Skeeve the Great Send a noteboard - 15/06/2010 09:30:42 PM

The point is that you initially took Rand's statement about 3x Semirhage and made it all about strength. Then you added skill in later posts.

We've seen channelers of similar strength shield one another : Nynaeve/Moghedien, Rand/Lanfear, Nynaeve/Talaan.

As I said in my original post, Rand is saying that it would take 3x Forsaken powered people to smother him, and he would not be able to counter it in any way. You disputed this down the page, but in a post before this you admit that it would take that much power to overwhelm Rand's strength and skill. So which is it? You can't have it both ways.

Lanfear obviously thought that she could get a shield through with Rand, or she never would have wasted her time.


What I'm saying MAY be the same thing, but I see your ability to resist a shield as a combination of strength and skill.

Lews Therin is saying that he can resist the shield of any woman who is weaker than him (i.e. any of the Forsaken females), and he can resist the shield of any TWO of the Forsaken females, even if together they may slightly exceed his strength.

But it would take THREE Forsaken females to cut him off beyond his ability to resist.

That's what I've been saying all along. And because this ability to resist does not merely consist of holding on to the Source at the maximum of his ability, but also to slice attacking weaves, to launch attacks of his own etc., this means that if Lews Therin was at his full potential, Lanfear would not be able to threaten him in the way she did at the Docks.

The Docks was a dangerous situation for Rand due to a combination of his lack of full strength, and significant lack of knowledge and experience.
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No three women could block him from the Source... Logain - 15/06/2010 06:52:17 PM 2411 Views
I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 07:22:16 PM 1444 Views
I think he means that it would take three such women to smother him Sidious - 15/06/2010 07:45:03 PM 1539 Views
Ahhh... I can kind of agree with that... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:05:46 PM 1593 Views
Yes, that is what he meant. Another interesting twist... Logain - 16/06/2010 01:34:18 AM 1657 Views
Agreed. Good analysis. Shannow - 16/06/2010 07:48:36 AM 1535 Views
Re: I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... randfandom - 15/06/2010 08:17:47 PM 1508 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:19:21 PM 1559 Views
Re: Huh? randfandom - 15/06/2010 08:31:17 PM 1397 Views
fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:43:12 PM 1488 Views
Re: Code_Man65 - 15/06/2010 08:47:05 PM 1312 Views
No, this is before. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1394 Views
Well that's a different quote from the one you used before, and this one shows Lanfear not succeedin Shannow - 15/06/2010 08:52:00 PM 1381 Views
I never used a quote before. And there's no quote where Lanfear's shield is not succeeding. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:52:28 PM 1251 Views
Simple answer to settle it: Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:00:22 PM 1307 Views
So Talaan is God? fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:04:44 PM 1457 Views
It Rand had half Lews Therin's skill at the time, she would stand no chance..SKILL was her advantage Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:08:41 PM 1373 Views
Skill has nothing to do with how strong a person is. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:11:13 PM 1355 Views
So? Sidious - 15/06/2010 09:15:01 PM 1341 Views
Nope, YOU said he was talking about smothering him, whatever that's supposed to mean... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:26:53 PM 1342 Views
Oh My God! That's such utter tripe... EDIT... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:30:29 PM 1394 Views
That's exactly how I understood you. Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:30:42 PM 1273 Views
You do know that this was AFTER Lanfear had picked up the bracelet angreal, right? Shannow - 15/06/2010 08:49:47 PM 1393 Views
It was before... both of them start using an angreal after this. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:52:02 PM 1277 Views
Nope. 6 Aes Sedai couldn't take Raolain Darksbane or Yurian Stonebow...Semirhage = 3 Aes Sedai Shannow - 15/06/2010 08:26:21 PM 1351 Views
Lanfear can do it alone Sidious - 15/06/2010 08:45:09 PM 1319 Views
She ATTEMPTS to cut him off, when he is not at full strength or full training yet... Shannow - 15/06/2010 08:55:39 PM 1278 Views
Plus, Rand was splitting his flows, IIRC. Meaning he wasn't 100% one-on-one with her. Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 08:57:35 PM 1341 Views
She was splitting her flows too... she was slicing his weaves of Air. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:59:00 PM 1340 Views
Bah! fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:58:26 PM 1346 Views
I repeat: You cannot shield someone unless you are significantly stronger than they are... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:02:55 PM 1262 Views
Explain Talaan shielding Nynaeve then. Or the two BA shielding her. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:05:21 PM 2264 Views
It becomes a battle of skill then... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:09:42 PM 1430 Views
BUT... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:12:47 PM 1311 Views
Then by your own definition you do not have to be significantly stronger to shield someone darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 11:28:44 PM 1316 Views
Re: "he would have had no need to cut her weaves" Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:03:39 PM 1268 Views
No. There's a difference. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:07:09 PM 1451 Views
Oh come on... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:48:56 PM 1481 Views
I know you are not that ignorant... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:07:02 PM 1294 Views
But that isn't true... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:10:37 PM 1281 Views
Let me spell it out for you... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:18:04 PM 1328 Views
Re: Let me spell it out for you... Sidious - 15/06/2010 09:21:02 PM 1330 Views
Don't put words in my, or Lews Therin's, mouth... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:33:50 PM 1498 Views
??? darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM 1481 Views
+1. It ridiculous comparison. Rand even didn't know how to shield a woman. Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:22:22 PM 1310 Views
Now that's a ridiculous comparison Sidious - 15/06/2010 09:24:45 PM 1438 Views
Exactly! fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:28:20 PM 1444 Views
Touchy point, heh? Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:28:47 PM 1352 Views
Then how come Lanfear never died? We know she made attempts to capture him. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:31:20 PM 1426 Views
Whom? LTT? Can you elaborate? Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:33:25 PM 1370 Views
If you wish... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:34:38 PM 1149 Views
Re: If you wish... Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:36:30 PM 1139 Views
Whyever not? fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:39:22 PM 1247 Views
Re: Whyever not? Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:41:22 PM 1124 Views
Even in that situation fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:43:04 PM 1406 Views
Re: Even in that situation Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:47:36 PM 1390 Views
Okay... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:59:36 PM 1326 Views
Re: Okay... Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 10:39:01 PM 1294 Views
So, if it doesn't agree with your view, its fuzzy, even when that is what the books say? *NM* fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 10:42:48 PM 735 Views
What? Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 10:45:16 PM 1275 Views
If we use your interpretation of the statements. *NM* fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 10:49:21 PM 639 Views
Re: If we use your interpretation of the statements. Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 10:54:48 PM 1173 Views
Okay, here's what I think you're saying... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 11:00:19 PM 1362 Views
Re: Okay, here's what I think you're saying... Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 11:10:57 PM 1293 Views
Sorry for the mixup... BUT... fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 12:28:31 AM 1345 Views
Hehehe! Classic. Maybe his hands were full of her...err..Globes of Fire... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:47:35 PM 1275 Views
I cannot believe you're so obtuse... or then again, I can. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:26:04 PM 1380 Views
About how strong you have to be to shield someone... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:14:31 PM 1174 Views
It's like women's tennis. Put the best up against a middling men's tennis player and they lose. *NM* Tom - 16/06/2010 12:18:06 AM 588 Views
Re: No three women could block him from the Source... Underwood - 16/06/2010 04:00:00 PM 1262 Views
+1 Skeeve the Great - 16/06/2010 05:54:51 PM 1363 Views
darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 08:48:39 PM 1537 Views
Re: Skeeve the Great - 16/06/2010 08:56:31 PM 1177 Views
indeed you have darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 09:34:22 PM 1411 Views
Bad analogy... fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 04:23:31 AM 1216 Views
Uh... Sidious - 17/06/2010 09:08:01 AM 1250 Views
I disagree. LordPerrin - 16/06/2010 04:03:52 PM 1439 Views
That's wrong. Rand said 2 AS + Moghedien could threaten him Logain - 16/06/2010 05:17:33 PM 1408 Views
Huh. I forgot about that. LordPerrin - 17/06/2010 04:29:38 PM 1454 Views
go back a few posts... Kieran - 17/06/2010 03:41:42 AM 1285 Views
yet Nynaeve and Talaan can shield one another darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 05:57:09 AM 1302 Views
I'd like to think Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha could RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/06/2010 04:19:22 PM 1221 Views
Agreed darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 05:59:39 PM 1110 Views
I don't think there's any theme Sidious - 17/06/2010 08:25:52 PM 1476 Views
I don't think they are meant to controll him in someway darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 10:21:09 PM 1311 Views
They have a separate trinity. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/06/2010 06:51:27 PM 1348 Views
They might be able to, but then they are not 3 women of <b>average AS</b> strength Logain - 17/06/2010 07:10:14 PM 1297 Views
They would be far more than 3 average AS darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 08:07:30 PM 1292 Views
No, that's not right either. Lews Therin Telamon - 18/06/2010 12:37:37 AM 1346 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 18/06/2010 06:07:10 AM 1441 Views
Another related quote Skeeve the Great - 18/06/2010 07:49:33 PM 1251 Views
well, in the same book about 5 minutes after Lanfear almost kicks Rands ass darius_sedai - 18/06/2010 08:11:49 PM 1358 Views
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