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Don't put words in my, or Lews Therin's, mouth... Shannow Send a noteboard - 15/06/2010 09:33:50 PM

Yes, because he did not know how to resist them. If you don't resist, then of course she can cut your connection. Just holding onto the Source means you leave yourself defenseless.

That isn't true at all. Verin and co. threw a shield at Graendal. Graendal did nothing, yet the shield bounced off. Verin and Alanna threw a shield at Rand in LoC. He did nothing, and the shield bounced off.

Of course six Aes Sedai can hold him. But it takes a LOT more to cut you off if you are already holding the Source. Come on, that's One Power 101. Even you know that.

Yes, but who said the six sisters against the False Dragons were trying to shield him? It was a battle, by all accounts, and not a shielding match.

Again, to shield someone who is already holding the Source, you must be MUCH stronger than they are. Something like 50% stronger, if the books are any indication. Was Rand sure that he is 50% stronger than 7 Aes Sedai, whose individual strengths he doesn't know, and who might or might not have angreal with them?

Was Talaan even .1% stronger than Nynaeve?

How was he to know.

Because he has an idea of how strong AS are from seeing how strong the strongest among them is?
If one of them was Moghedien, she would be dangerous enough. Maybe not to shield him, but very dangerous to confront.

She would be able to shield him. Unless he cut her shield.


The closer you are in strength, the more uncertain it becomes that you will be able to shield someone. If you are exactly equal, the chances of success are very slim. In fact, in Nynaeve's case, it was proven that although she was equal to Talaan, she was unable to shield her, and was in fact shielded herself because Talaan was more skilled.

So it became a battle of skill, which Nynaeve lost.

As for Verin and Graendal's cases. See above. Verin and Alanna's shield was hopelessly weaker than Rand's connection to the source. So much weaker that he did not even have to bother to resist it.

Same with Graendal and Verin's case. Graendal was channeling through an angreal and the thickness of her connection was either exceeded Verin's shield strength by too great a margin, or Verin's shield was of insufficient precision to slice through it.

We know Lanfear is very dexterous, and can therefore no doubt create shield with a much sharper "edge", meaning in effect that she can punch above her weight in strength.

But as I said before, if it was Lews Therin in front of her, instead of the untrained, ignorant Rand, she would have had no chance.

Ishamael could not even cut Lews Therin off from the source. How on earth could Lanfear hope to do it then?


There's no proof that Rand made a massive jump in strength and skill after this. A chapter later he fought Rahvin, and earlier in the book he got into a direct battle with Sammael. How unskilled could he be compared to Lews Therin? Are you telling me that you could add a second Lanfear and Lews Therin would be able to hold them off?


Rand only "remembered" how to slice a weave of saidar in the midst of fending of Lanfear's attack at the Docks. Thanks to Asmodaen's teachings, he had far more knowledge and practice in how to counter weaves of saidin, than weaves of saidar.

So yes, he DOES make significant leaps in knowledge after FoH. He is not even at full knowledge yet at any time in the series, until he merges with Lews Therin at the end of Book 12.

Regarding strength: Whatever the difference in strength between Rahvin and Lews Therin was, that is how much Rand still grows after FoH. And since Rahvin was never mentioned as being close to Lews Therin in strength, it may well be a significant increase.

Lastly, nice try in attempting to catch me with a sneaky one. Lews Therin never said it would take 3 women as strong as Lanfear to shield him from the source. He said it would take 3 women as strong as Semirhage or Mesaaana.

I believe that two Lanfears WOULD be able to shield him, and that merely strengthens my belief that there is a larger gap between Lanfear and the other female Forsaken than 5-10% that some of you propose.
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No three women could block him from the Source... - 15/06/2010 06:52:17 PM 2306 Views
I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 07:22:16 PM 1378 Views
I think he means that it would take three such women to smother him - 15/06/2010 07:45:03 PM 1464 Views
Ahhh... I can kind of agree with that... - 15/06/2010 08:05:46 PM 1519 Views
Yes, that is what he meant. Another interesting twist... - 16/06/2010 01:34:18 AM 1567 Views
Agreed. Good analysis. - 16/06/2010 07:48:36 AM 1454 Views
Re: I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 08:17:47 PM 1421 Views
Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:19:21 PM 1491 Views
Re: Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:31:17 PM 1325 Views
- 15/06/2010 08:43:12 PM 1387 Views
Re: - 15/06/2010 08:47:05 PM 1232 Views
No, this is before. - 15/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1318 Views
Well that's a different quote from the one you used before, and this one shows Lanfear not succeedin - 15/06/2010 08:52:00 PM 1295 Views
I never used a quote before. And there's no quote where Lanfear's shield is not succeeding. - 15/06/2010 08:52:28 PM 1179 Views
Simple answer to settle it: - 15/06/2010 09:00:22 PM 1232 Views
So Talaan is God? - 15/06/2010 09:04:44 PM 1388 Views
It Rand had half Lews Therin's skill at the time, she would stand no chance..SKILL was her advantage - 15/06/2010 09:08:41 PM 1292 Views
Skill has nothing to do with how strong a person is. - 15/06/2010 09:11:13 PM 1280 Views
So? - 15/06/2010 09:15:01 PM 1263 Views
Nope, YOU said he was talking about smothering him, whatever that's supposed to mean... - 15/06/2010 09:26:53 PM 1265 Views
Oh My God! That's such utter tripe... EDIT... - 15/06/2010 09:30:29 PM 1300 Views
That's exactly how I understood you. - 15/06/2010 09:30:42 PM 1195 Views
Nope. 6 Aes Sedai couldn't take Raolain Darksbane or Yurian Stonebow...Semirhage = 3 Aes Sedai - 15/06/2010 08:26:21 PM 1271 Views
Lanfear can do it alone - 15/06/2010 08:45:09 PM 1244 Views
She ATTEMPTS to cut him off, when he is not at full strength or full training yet... - 15/06/2010 08:55:39 PM 1199 Views
Plus, Rand was splitting his flows, IIRC. Meaning he wasn't 100% one-on-one with her. - 15/06/2010 08:57:35 PM 1262 Views
She was splitting her flows too... she was slicing his weaves of Air. - 15/06/2010 08:59:00 PM 1261 Views
Bah! - 15/06/2010 08:58:26 PM 1274 Views
I repeat: You cannot shield someone unless you are significantly stronger than they are... - 15/06/2010 09:02:55 PM 1188 Views
Explain Talaan shielding Nynaeve then. Or the two BA shielding her. - 15/06/2010 09:05:21 PM 2172 Views
It becomes a battle of skill then... - 15/06/2010 09:09:42 PM 1361 Views
BUT... - 15/06/2010 09:12:47 PM 1241 Views
Re: "he would have had no need to cut her weaves" - 15/06/2010 09:03:39 PM 1192 Views
No. There's a difference. - 15/06/2010 09:07:09 PM 1377 Views
Oh come on... - 15/06/2010 08:48:56 PM 1384 Views
I know you are not that ignorant... - 15/06/2010 09:07:02 PM 1191 Views
But that isn't true... - 15/06/2010 09:10:37 PM 1209 Views
Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:18:04 PM 1245 Views
Re: Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:21:02 PM 1252 Views
Don't put words in my, or Lews Therin's, mouth... - 15/06/2010 09:33:50 PM 1406 Views
??? - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM 1403 Views
+1. It ridiculous comparison. Rand even didn't know how to shield a woman. - 15/06/2010 09:22:22 PM 1238 Views
Now that's a ridiculous comparison - 15/06/2010 09:24:45 PM 1358 Views
Exactly! - 15/06/2010 09:28:20 PM 1370 Views
Touchy point, heh? - 15/06/2010 09:28:47 PM 1295 Views
Then how come Lanfear never died? We know she made attempts to capture him. - 15/06/2010 09:31:20 PM 1356 Views
Whom? LTT? Can you elaborate? - 15/06/2010 09:33:25 PM 1295 Views
If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:34:38 PM 1063 Views
Re: If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:36:30 PM 1071 Views
Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:39:22 PM 1165 Views
Re: Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:41:22 PM 1046 Views
Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:43:04 PM 1332 Views
Re: Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:47:36 PM 1314 Views
Okay... - 15/06/2010 09:59:36 PM 1255 Views
Re: Okay... - 15/06/2010 10:39:01 PM 1219 Views
So, if it doesn't agree with your view, its fuzzy, even when that is what the books say? *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:42:48 PM 696 Views
What? - 15/06/2010 10:45:16 PM 1201 Views
If we use your interpretation of the statements. *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:49:21 PM 595 Views
Re: If we use your interpretation of the statements. - 15/06/2010 10:54:48 PM 1108 Views
Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:00:19 PM 1284 Views
Re: Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:10:57 PM 1229 Views
Sorry for the mixup... BUT... - 16/06/2010 12:28:31 AM 1271 Views
I cannot believe you're so obtuse... or then again, I can. - 15/06/2010 09:26:04 PM 1300 Views
About how strong you have to be to shield someone... - 15/06/2010 09:14:31 PM 1093 Views
Re: No three women could block him from the Source... - 16/06/2010 04:00:00 PM 1171 Views
+1 - 16/06/2010 05:54:51 PM 1250 Views
- 16/06/2010 08:48:39 PM 1467 Views
Re: - 16/06/2010 08:56:31 PM 1102 Views
indeed you have - 16/06/2010 09:34:22 PM 1340 Views
Bad analogy... - 17/06/2010 04:23:31 AM 1145 Views
Uh... - 17/06/2010 09:08:01 AM 1171 Views
I disagree. - 16/06/2010 04:03:52 PM 1356 Views
That's wrong. Rand said 2 AS + Moghedien could threaten him - 16/06/2010 05:17:33 PM 1319 Views
Huh. I forgot about that. - 17/06/2010 04:29:38 PM 1380 Views
go back a few posts... - 17/06/2010 03:41:42 AM 1210 Views
yet Nynaeve and Talaan can shield one another - 17/06/2010 05:57:09 AM 1228 Views
I'd like to think Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha could - 17/06/2010 04:19:22 PM 1148 Views
Agreed - 17/06/2010 05:59:39 PM 1029 Views
I don't think there's any theme - 17/06/2010 08:25:52 PM 1399 Views
I don't think they are meant to controll him in someway - 17/06/2010 10:21:09 PM 1226 Views
They have a separate trinity. - 18/06/2010 06:51:27 PM 1253 Views
They might be able to, but then they are not 3 women of <b>average AS</b> strength - 17/06/2010 07:10:14 PM 1219 Views
They would be far more than 3 average AS - 17/06/2010 08:07:30 PM 1217 Views
No, that's not right either. - 18/06/2010 12:37:37 AM 1268 Views
I disagree - 18/06/2010 06:07:10 AM 1350 Views
Another related quote - 18/06/2010 07:49:33 PM 1181 Views
well, in the same book about 5 minutes after Lanfear almost kicks Rands ass - 18/06/2010 08:11:49 PM 1272 Views

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