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Then by your own definition you do not have to be significantly stronger to shield someone darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 15/06/2010 11:28:44 PM
Let me get something straight. If Lanfear was incapable of shielding Rand at the time, he would have had no need to cut her weaves. Just like he didn't have to cut Verin and Alanna's shield, or how Graendal didn't have to cut Verin's shield at the Cleansing.

That kind of strength advantage is simply not available to Rand against Lanfear.

Now, at this time, he was as strong as Rahvin, who is as strong as Sammael, who is nearly as strong as LTT. There isn't any huge strength deficit from LTT that would magically make Rand be able to defeat Lanfear's shield in the future.


Rand's lack of knowledge of how to counter saidar was his major deficiency here.

But the fact remains, to shield someone already holding the Source is almost impossible unless you are significantly stronger than they are, or FAR more skilled than they are.

Is Lanfear Much stronger or much more skilled than Lews Therin? NO. Therefore, she cannot shield him at his full potential and skill level.


Nynaeve could as easily have shielded Talaan, but Talaan was too deft for her.


If equal strength women can shield one another based on skill then it is not necessary to be MUCH stronger than someone in order to shield them.

I think what you are getting at is what Sidious is talking about.

Egwene is 2x Sheriam, and in TGS slaps a shield over her, cutting her from the source without breaking a sweat, she is both overwhelmingly stronger and more skillful/deft than Sheriam. Thus she "smothered" her.

On the other hand Nynaeve failed to Shield Elayne despite a goodly strength difference, obviously because her shield was not woven deftly enough, but it also shows that Nynaeve is not enough stronger than Elayne to "smother". In this case Nynaeve needed to either be even stronger than Elayne than she was, or weave a far more deft shield to cut Elayne off from the source.

Later, Nynaeve is able to shield (and them become shielded) by an equally strong channeler. Meaning the shields in question had the necessary deftness to perform the task.

What this means is that Lanfear was able to weave a shield with sufficient deftness and strength to in fact cut Rand from the source, but he was skilled enough to defend himself and thus avoid being cut off (if only just). I agree that in all likelihood at full Strength Lanfear would be unable to shield Rand, but it would be close IMO as Rand was already at least as strong as an average strength male Forsaken. 2 Forsaken would easily smother Rand.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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No three women could block him from the Source... - 15/06/2010 06:52:17 PM 2306 Views
I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 07:22:16 PM 1378 Views
I think he means that it would take three such women to smother him - 15/06/2010 07:45:03 PM 1464 Views
Ahhh... I can kind of agree with that... - 15/06/2010 08:05:46 PM 1519 Views
Yes, that is what he meant. Another interesting twist... - 16/06/2010 01:34:18 AM 1567 Views
Agreed. Good analysis. - 16/06/2010 07:48:36 AM 1454 Views
Re: I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 08:17:47 PM 1422 Views
Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:19:21 PM 1491 Views
Re: Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:31:17 PM 1325 Views
- 15/06/2010 08:43:12 PM 1388 Views
Re: - 15/06/2010 08:47:05 PM 1232 Views
No, this is before. - 15/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1318 Views
Well that's a different quote from the one you used before, and this one shows Lanfear not succeedin - 15/06/2010 08:52:00 PM 1295 Views
I never used a quote before. And there's no quote where Lanfear's shield is not succeeding. - 15/06/2010 08:52:28 PM 1179 Views
Simple answer to settle it: - 15/06/2010 09:00:22 PM 1232 Views
So Talaan is God? - 15/06/2010 09:04:44 PM 1388 Views
It Rand had half Lews Therin's skill at the time, she would stand no chance..SKILL was her advantage - 15/06/2010 09:08:41 PM 1292 Views
Skill has nothing to do with how strong a person is. - 15/06/2010 09:11:13 PM 1280 Views
So? - 15/06/2010 09:15:01 PM 1263 Views
Nope, YOU said he was talking about smothering him, whatever that's supposed to mean... - 15/06/2010 09:26:53 PM 1265 Views
Oh My God! That's such utter tripe... EDIT... - 15/06/2010 09:30:29 PM 1300 Views
That's exactly how I understood you. - 15/06/2010 09:30:42 PM 1195 Views
Nope. 6 Aes Sedai couldn't take Raolain Darksbane or Yurian Stonebow...Semirhage = 3 Aes Sedai - 15/06/2010 08:26:21 PM 1271 Views
Lanfear can do it alone - 15/06/2010 08:45:09 PM 1245 Views
She ATTEMPTS to cut him off, when he is not at full strength or full training yet... - 15/06/2010 08:55:39 PM 1199 Views
Plus, Rand was splitting his flows, IIRC. Meaning he wasn't 100% one-on-one with her. - 15/06/2010 08:57:35 PM 1262 Views
She was splitting her flows too... she was slicing his weaves of Air. - 15/06/2010 08:59:00 PM 1261 Views
Bah! - 15/06/2010 08:58:26 PM 1274 Views
I repeat: You cannot shield someone unless you are significantly stronger than they are... - 15/06/2010 09:02:55 PM 1188 Views
Explain Talaan shielding Nynaeve then. Or the two BA shielding her. - 15/06/2010 09:05:21 PM 2172 Views
It becomes a battle of skill then... - 15/06/2010 09:09:42 PM 1361 Views
BUT... - 15/06/2010 09:12:47 PM 1241 Views
Then by your own definition you do not have to be significantly stronger to shield someone - 15/06/2010 11:28:44 PM 1234 Views
Re: "he would have had no need to cut her weaves" - 15/06/2010 09:03:39 PM 1192 Views
No. There's a difference. - 15/06/2010 09:07:09 PM 1377 Views
Oh come on... - 15/06/2010 08:48:56 PM 1384 Views
I know you are not that ignorant... - 15/06/2010 09:07:02 PM 1191 Views
But that isn't true... - 15/06/2010 09:10:37 PM 1209 Views
Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:18:04 PM 1245 Views
Re: Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:21:02 PM 1252 Views
Don't put words in my, or Lews Therin's, mouth... - 15/06/2010 09:33:50 PM 1406 Views
??? - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM 1404 Views
+1. It ridiculous comparison. Rand even didn't know how to shield a woman. - 15/06/2010 09:22:22 PM 1238 Views
Now that's a ridiculous comparison - 15/06/2010 09:24:45 PM 1358 Views
Exactly! - 15/06/2010 09:28:20 PM 1370 Views
Touchy point, heh? - 15/06/2010 09:28:47 PM 1295 Views
Then how come Lanfear never died? We know she made attempts to capture him. - 15/06/2010 09:31:20 PM 1356 Views
Whom? LTT? Can you elaborate? - 15/06/2010 09:33:25 PM 1296 Views
If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:34:38 PM 1064 Views
Re: If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:36:30 PM 1071 Views
Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:39:22 PM 1165 Views
Re: Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:41:22 PM 1046 Views
Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:43:04 PM 1332 Views
Re: Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:47:36 PM 1314 Views
Okay... - 15/06/2010 09:59:36 PM 1255 Views
Re: Okay... - 15/06/2010 10:39:01 PM 1219 Views
So, if it doesn't agree with your view, its fuzzy, even when that is what the books say? *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:42:48 PM 696 Views
What? - 15/06/2010 10:45:16 PM 1201 Views
If we use your interpretation of the statements. *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:49:21 PM 596 Views
Re: If we use your interpretation of the statements. - 15/06/2010 10:54:48 PM 1108 Views
Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:00:19 PM 1284 Views
Re: Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:10:57 PM 1229 Views
Sorry for the mixup... BUT... - 16/06/2010 12:28:31 AM 1271 Views
I cannot believe you're so obtuse... or then again, I can. - 15/06/2010 09:26:04 PM 1300 Views
About how strong you have to be to shield someone... - 15/06/2010 09:14:31 PM 1093 Views
Re: No three women could block him from the Source... - 16/06/2010 04:00:00 PM 1171 Views
+1 - 16/06/2010 05:54:51 PM 1250 Views
- 16/06/2010 08:48:39 PM 1468 Views
Re: - 16/06/2010 08:56:31 PM 1102 Views
indeed you have - 16/06/2010 09:34:22 PM 1341 Views
Bad analogy... - 17/06/2010 04:23:31 AM 1145 Views
Uh... - 17/06/2010 09:08:01 AM 1171 Views
I disagree. - 16/06/2010 04:03:52 PM 1356 Views
That's wrong. Rand said 2 AS + Moghedien could threaten him - 16/06/2010 05:17:33 PM 1319 Views
Huh. I forgot about that. - 17/06/2010 04:29:38 PM 1380 Views
go back a few posts... - 17/06/2010 03:41:42 AM 1210 Views
yet Nynaeve and Talaan can shield one another - 17/06/2010 05:57:09 AM 1228 Views
I'd like to think Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha could - 17/06/2010 04:19:22 PM 1148 Views
Agreed - 17/06/2010 05:59:39 PM 1029 Views
I don't think there's any theme - 17/06/2010 08:25:52 PM 1399 Views
I don't think they are meant to controll him in someway - 17/06/2010 10:21:09 PM 1227 Views
They have a separate trinity. - 18/06/2010 06:51:27 PM 1253 Views
They might be able to, but then they are not 3 women of <b>average AS</b> strength - 17/06/2010 07:10:14 PM 1219 Views
They would be far more than 3 average AS - 17/06/2010 08:07:30 PM 1218 Views
No, that's not right either. - 18/06/2010 12:37:37 AM 1268 Views
I disagree - 18/06/2010 06:07:10 AM 1350 Views
Another related quote - 18/06/2010 07:49:33 PM 1181 Views
well, in the same book about 5 minutes after Lanfear almost kicks Rands ass - 18/06/2010 08:11:49 PM 1272 Views

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