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Re: Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM

We've seen time and again how many things have proven to change with training ... in the same scene you note with Egwene she seems to think that splitting flows requires more strength, yet by KOD she can split hers a dozen ways and more while barely able to channel.

How is this related? First off, to do all the things Rand did, you do indeed need to be strong. It isn't about how much you split, but about what you can do with those split flows. Egwene, when she was Forkroot weakened, could make almost translucent balls and rings of fire. At her full strength, she could have done much more. That is exactly her point with Rand.

For another, this is a matter of knowledge of the Power. But sensing a shield without reaching for the source is not. No one thought Egwene how to see the glow of channeling, yet she figured it out. No one thought her how to sense channelers. She sensed that in Avi herself, then later in Moiraine, Amys and Melaine. It should be the same with shields placed on you. I don't see why Egwene couldn't have felt that in tSR.

Sensing the ability in another woman is something Nynaeve hasn't learned well as late as KOD too ... yet that's supposed to be instinctive ... why is it so hard to believe that a well educated Channeler would be able to feel a shield being placed on them without trying to embrace the source?

But no one thought that ability to Egwene and Elayne. They learned it themselves. Nynaeve failed at what is a very basic and instinctive ability because she resisted using the OP and was in denial about it for a long time.

Frankly, I don't see what education has to do with sensing a shield from the opposite gender. You either feel a kick or you don't. Education won't change that. I don't see why education would change feeling a shield without attempting to channel.

For example, when Rand was in a box and the Aes Sedai were shielding him, never once did he claim to feel the shield without pushing against it. And yet, at many of those moments, LTT was with him, probing the shield, offering suggestions, etc. No one is more educated than LTT. Yet he too needed to physically push against the shield to feel it, sense the knots, and figure out if they were soft or hard. I'm sure you'll explain that away too, but the fact remains that no one has ever shown this ability, and many have shown definite lack of it.

I fail to see why you are in attack mode over this. But to use your own word ... Classy.

I'm in an attack mode because you're ignoring multiple instances of the text proving you wrong, and twisting what it says to suit your purpose. I remember you being the same way with the OP debates.
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8288 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2066 Views
A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 1815 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 1744 Views
Yes, that's the point - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 1612 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 1718 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 1814 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1155 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 1928 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1044 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1015 Views
I love the borderlanders - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 1794 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1107 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1011 Views
I posted some links here - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 1642 Views
My quick summary - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2410 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1487 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 1839 Views
Awesome! - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 1592 Views
Regarding Graendal - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2103 Views
Some things... - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 1654 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 1618 Views
a very weak angreal - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1613 Views
Even a weak angreal - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 1568 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1432 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 1692 Views
Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 1564 Views
Re: Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1375 Views
Audio Book - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1513 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1718 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 1612 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1428 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1542 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1516 Views
I think so, yes. - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1449 Views
I don't think so actually - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1557 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1503 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 879 Views
no she wasn't *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 988 Views
nope, no power - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1366 Views
So here's what happens... - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 1888 Views
Thanks. A few comments... - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1387 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1427 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 1546 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1419 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1426 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1284 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1362 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1392 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1431 Views
How did she know there was a shield? - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1366 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1379 Views
Who said "they"? - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1353 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1308 Views
Provide evidence? - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1380 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1287 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1340 Views
Alright, you win *NM* - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 927 Views
*NM* - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 799 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1268 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1494 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2289 Views
So? - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1216 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1316 Views
Nice catches! - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1415 Views
we don't know that - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1341 Views
Huh? - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1297 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1349 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1255 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1341 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1339 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1440 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3382 Views
Well... - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1385 Views
She says... - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1394 Views
no one is arguing that - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1339 Views
Er... - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1292 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2116 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2079 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1345 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1418 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1326 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1332 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1449 Views
Really? - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1395 Views
Re: Really? - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1291 Views
That's my point *NM* - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 932 Views
Re: She says... - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1343 Views
Exactly. - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1309 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1320 Views
Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1401 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1285 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1281 Views
Nope - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1193 Views
Re: Nope - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1335 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1453 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1334 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1232 Views
Well... - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1419 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1525 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1374 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1499 Views
Oh come on.. be real - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1312 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1388 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1321 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1327 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 963 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 932 Views
Well, exactly! - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1392 Views
What I think happened - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1343 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1303 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1394 Views
Fair point. - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1386 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1376 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1285 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2396 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 2843 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1285 Views
she never shielded them - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1296 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1245 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1339 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1299 Views
LMAO... nice! - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1319 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1377 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1242 Views
I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1378 Views
Re: I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1244 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1302 Views
Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1296 Views
Re: Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1258 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1314 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1323 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1429 Views
*NM* - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 882 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 1572 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1585 Views
For the record - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1484 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1377 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1419 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1533 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 924 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 982 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1354 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 954 Views
I tend to agree - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1359 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 1957 Views
Yes, but its still a little off - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1404 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1562 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1435 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1521 Views
She was really surprised and scared. - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1480 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1373 Views
Quite a bit... - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1521 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1545 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 888 Views
Second best prologue ever... - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1751 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1399 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1423 Views
Aran'gar is a tool - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1554 Views
Yes. s/He was. - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1395 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1514 Views
- 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1451 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1476 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1456 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2096 Views
I had a similar thought, but... - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1408 Views
Probably not Sanderson - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1440 Views
No way - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1362 Views
I agree. *NM* - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 929 Views
A few nits - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1356 Views
Canadian Download site - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 1852 Views

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