Active Users:262 Time:06/05/2024 03:00:22 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM
She can shield Cyndane and Moghedien together while using less than half of its power. Therefore Arangar and Delana should be no problem.



She laid Compulsion on them using it.


Anyway, let's say Arangar and Graendal are equal in strength.

Her angreal doubles her strength.

That means she can easily shield Arangar and Delana and do all the other good stuff.

No further debate necessary.

Even if it increased her strength by just 50% - making it weaker than any angreal we've seen so far - it still makes it easy for her to shield Arangar.

Especially since we have no idea how much saidin Arangar was holding.

Simply too many unknowns in this scene to base any theories on it.


and it's hard to say how much stronger one must be to cut another off from the source. We have conflicting evidence. Nynaeve can shield Talaan (and the reverse), but earlier she couldn't "slam" a shield over Elayne despite being considerably stronger. From Graendal's POV she could barely concentrate enough to embrace Saidar so I'm at a loss to think that in such a state she was wielding saidar at her most skillful level. It just seems more easily explained IMO that Aran'gar was not actually holding saidin when Graendal put the shield over her.

Graendal was clearly doing things on the fly and would have had to take the risk that her shield would rebound since she only had seconds to react. Aran'gar gasping could mean anything.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Reply to message
Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8288 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! PatAtt - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2066 Views
A dove, that's weird BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 1815 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 1744 Views
Yes, that's the point BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 1612 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 1717 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM 1069 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 1813 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1155 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 1928 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1043 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* Yuri - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1015 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM* RandAllThor - 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM 1019 Views
I love the borderlanders PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 1794 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1106 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* Guava - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1011 Views
I posted some links here PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 1642 Views
My quick summary PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2409 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. DREWRULESWOT! - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1487 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 1838 Views
Awesome! Ryan - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 1592 Views
Regarding Graendal Sidious - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2103 Views
Some things... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 1653 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 1617 Views
a very weak angreal darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1612 Views
Even a weak angreal malekithe - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 1568 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1431 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM 1609 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream Syraelle - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 1692 Views
Probably Slayer RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 1564 Views
Re: Probably Slayer Syraelle - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1375 Views
Audio Book Matt_at_Heart - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1513 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... Shannow - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1717 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 1612 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1427 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1542 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1515 Views
I think so, yes. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1449 Views
I don't think so actually darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1557 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1503 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 879 Views
Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM 1386 Views
no she wasn't *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 988 Views
nope, no power newyorkersedai - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1366 Views
So here's what happens... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 1888 Views
Thanks. A few comments... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1387 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1427 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 1545 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1419 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1426 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1283 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1361 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1392 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1431 Views
How did she know there was a shield? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1366 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1379 Views
Who said "they"? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1352 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe Shannow - 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM 1398 Views
I don't think strength is the only determinant... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:24:24 PM 1381 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1307 Views
Provide evidence? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1380 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1286 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1340 Views
Alright, you win *NM* Deadsy - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 926 Views
*NM* fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 798 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1268 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1494 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2289 Views
So? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1216 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source Mik - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1315 Views
Nice catches! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1414 Views
we don't know that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1341 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1296 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... Mik - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1349 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1254 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1341 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1339 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1439 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3382 Views
Well... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1385 Views
She says... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1394 Views
no one is arguing that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1338 Views
Er... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1292 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2115 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2079 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1345 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1417 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1325 Views
fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1331 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1449 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1395 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1290 Views
That's my point *NM* darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 932 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* Bookwyrm - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 946 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* Marshall - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 953 Views
Re: She says... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1343 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1309 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1319 Views
Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1401 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1284 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1280 Views
Nope darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1193 Views
Re: Nope fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1334 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! Mik - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1453 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1334 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1232 Views
Well... Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1419 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1525 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1374 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM 1403 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1498 Views
Oh come on.. be real Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1312 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1388 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? Gee69 - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1321 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM* Myrdhyn - 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM 1035 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1327 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 963 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 931 Views
Well, exactly! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1392 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal Ryan - 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM 1600 Views
What I think happened Sidious - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1343 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Shannow - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1303 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Sidious - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1393 Views
Fair point. Shannow - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1385 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1376 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted malekithe - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1285 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2396 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 2842 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1285 Views
she never shielded them darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1296 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1244 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1339 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1298 Views
LMAO... nice! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1319 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1376 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1241 Views
I would agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1378 Views
Re: I would agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1244 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1302 Views
Mostly agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1295 Views
Re: Mostly agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1258 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM 1349 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM 1375 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1314 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1323 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1428 Views
*NM* alanna aes sedai - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 881 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 1572 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal. Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM 1453 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM 902 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... The Angry Druid - 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM 1325 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM 1426 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself! darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM 1408 Views
I'm happy there wasn't... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM 1448 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM 1417 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM 1519 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM 1298 Views
True... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:02:59 PM 1300 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1585 Views
For the record Heiko - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1483 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1377 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1419 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM 1046 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump? Marshall - 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM 1527 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM 1387 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? Tom - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1533 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 924 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 982 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1354 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 953 Views
I tend to agree Sidious - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1359 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 1957 Views
Yes, but its still a little off Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1404 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1561 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose Sidious - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1434 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? Sidious - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1521 Views
She was really surprised and scared. Rurouni_Kenshin - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1479 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. Tom - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1373 Views
Quite a bit... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1520 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1545 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 887 Views
Second best prologue ever... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1751 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1399 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1422 Views
Aran'gar is a tool Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1554 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM 1352 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM 1304 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM 1257 Views
Yes. s/He was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1394 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? 4th Dimension - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1514 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead? RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM 1412 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM* Tom - 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM 939 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM* RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM 913 Views
Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1451 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Etzel - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1476 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1455 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM 1510 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part Marshall - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2096 Views
I had a similar thought, but... RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1407 Views
Probably not Sanderson 4th Dimension - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1440 Views
No way Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1361 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out darius_sedai - 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM 1504 Views
I agree. *NM* Etzel - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 928 Views
A few nits Terez - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1356 Views
Canadian Download site alanna aes sedai - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 1851 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes