Your personal theories do not constitute evidence, and your aberrant logic better supports MY case
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 21/10/2010 03:21:44 PM
All the characters live in a world where the DO is bound to get loose and make everything horrible. And this will happen over and over again no matter what. The Shadow's stain on normal life even happens in turnings of the Wheel in which there isn't any channeling. So really, the Children should be blaming the Creator himself for the threat of the Shadow. That would make sense.
Even if I accepted your absurd premise that "it was bound to happen" that does not justify the channelers doing it. At least it would have taken longer if they had waited for his inevitable breakout on their own. Secondly, unless he made the Dark One (and there is no evidence of that, whereas RJ & the glossary imply he did not), the Creator is not responsible for what the Dark One does. Blaming the channelers for unleashing the DO is like having a house built by lousy contractors, then blaming your slightly overweight friend for sitting on your kitchen counter and it breaking apart. Yes, the friend's weight and choice of seats caused the actual destruction to occur, but the contractors are the people who set the whole situation up with their incompetent behavior and choices.
So by your analogy, the channelers CANNOT HELP THEMSELVES. In YOUR world view, the Children are even MORE justified than in mine! Mine holds that everyone is responsible for their actions, and that deliberate volitional acts by channelers are responsible for the Dark One breaking free. In your view, it is simply their nature - that they cause harm merely by existing in the fragile structure that is the world. Therefore, the Children are justified in trying to eliminate them, just as the Seanchan are justified in leashing them - if they cause destruction just by being who and what they are, the other inhabitants of that fragile domicile have the moral imperative to evict them in order to ensure their own security. Most reasonable folks want to put the blame where it's due; unreasonable ones want it to go anywhere - especially anywhere that absolves their own errors and omissions.
Fine, we'll punish the Creator as soon as someone catches him and places him under arrest. None of what you said changes the essential truth that channelers are still the problematic factor. Without channelers, the Dark One would not have broken free, there would not be Shadowspawn or have been the Breaking of the world.If anything, blaming anyone - even the Creator - for the Shadow's appearance is a waste of time. Why? Because it misses the point that they still have to fight an incredible and difficult battle. Why waste time assigning blame when you have an immediate crisis to deal with? In the 80s, it was often said that American companies would waste time finding a scapegoat, whereas Japanese companies would focus on identifying and resolving the problem and its causes. That logic holds well here, too, as far as the Children and their distrust of the One Power.
Yes, get rid of the channelers before they cause more problems. The most successful cultures in WoT are those that limit and curtail channelers power in society. The cultures ruled by channelers are Shara, old Seanchan and the Land of Madmen. The successful and thriving cultures have strictly limited places for channelers in society and actual rule is restricted to non channelers (Sea Folk, Aiel, Seanchan). The in-between culture, with somewhat limited channelers and unofficial limitations on their ability to rule, and only vague restraints on their power, has fallen into stagnation and has been fading away for the last millenium. And of course, the DID free the Dark One, Break the world and lead Trolloc armies to devastate the Ten Nations.
Finally, why are you recalling a faddish admiration for a business model that has since failed? Citing the Japanese was cool in the 80s when they were the up and coming thing, but they've been in a slump throughout the 21st century. So much for their vaunted long-term perspective.
The Children may have started out as a cool, philosophical, anti-Shadow society. They turned into a misogynist
Evidence? bunch of blood-thirsty asses who stuck their nose in everyone's business, by threat of torture and spite-inspired accusation. They don't even do as much good as the AS, who do things like Heal people that they don't "need" for anything.
All that said, yes they probably will duck their heads and charge at the Shadow without much complaint. Yes, the AS probably will take up the DR's precious time with beratings, accusations, and unnecessary formalities. This is because the AS have a great bargaining position (they WILL be needed at TG),
Not from any objective view. They are no more than a thousand channelers, with serious blindspots and shortcomings and are among the more ineffectual groups in combat. Rand has the unrestrained Asha'man who match their numbers, are stronger and specifically trained to fight and destroy and are disciplined as soldiers. He has the Wise Ones who outnumber the Tower six to one. He has the Sea Folk, who have struck the greatest blow against the Dark One of any channelers between the Strike at Shayol Ghul and the Cleansing. He even has Aes Sedai sworn to him to provide the prestige and leadership positions associated with them for centuries. As for their diplomatic influence, his overwhelmingly superior military might far outweighs there subtle influence, in the short term at least (and since that's all that is left...), and all the people whom the Tower could "sway" to his side are under his rule, that of his allies and vassals and best friend and mother of his children. Or people who hate the Tower more than they hate Rand. The Tower's influence in the world is nil next to Rand's. Any superior bargaining position they hold is purely a case of "the author said so" rather than any genuine reflection of the state of affairs. Egwene will wring concessions thanks only to Rand's generosity or author-mandated sudden inability to make a coherent response to her absurd positions, as happened repeatedly among the sisters who dealt with her in tGS.whereas the Children have managed to make themselves more irrelevant and ignorable with every pious, pompous, self-serving accusation that they have instigated/inspired.
The righteous and just are typically despised by those who fail to meet their standards.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
The Children of the Light and the White Tower
20/10/2010 08:32:10 PM
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Re: The Children of the Light and the White Tower
20/10/2010 08:58:12 PM
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The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
20/10/2010 09:05:55 PM
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Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 12:15:48 AM
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Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 02:59:49 PM
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Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 04:35:00 PM
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And farmers are, of course, treated the same as rebel officers and usurpers and mutineers.
23/10/2010 03:07:10 PM
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Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 07:55:06 PM
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And there is no indication of how far that went.
23/10/2010 03:12:42 PM
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"The question" as opposed to "questioning"
24/10/2010 06:21:43 PM
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And that would indicate everyone does it, if it is so commonly used, so how are the CoL worse? *NM*
25/10/2010 01:14:13 AM
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Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
24/10/2010 06:53:19 AM
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The utter stupidity of this statement caught my eye...
24/10/2010 08:12:58 AM
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Your analyses and extension of concepts always brings that "utter stupidity" phrase to my mind.
25/10/2010 02:17:10 AM
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Huh? ... what !! ... are you mad?
21/10/2010 05:05:16 PM
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Did you forget the very first PoV Darkfriend in the series?
23/10/2010 03:27:25 PM
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Difference being the whitecloaks who were ordered to do it were not DFs. All the AS evil deeds
23/10/2010 07:55:23 PM
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So similar scenes in the Cairhienin civil war were all the work of Darkfriends?
25/10/2010 02:25:57 AM
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Please provide an example of a DF AS committing an atrocity and not being punished by the Tower
25/10/2010 03:34:46 AM
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Just one? Here's a list from the top of my head in 60 secs:..
25/10/2010 09:28:10 AM
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Re: Just one? Here's a list from the top of my head in 60 secs:..
25/10/2010 04:14:05 PM
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Not to mention it's not like any of these have been without repercussion!
25/10/2010 04:50:39 PM
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Re: Not to mention it's not like any of these have been without repercussion!
27/10/2010 01:06:53 PM
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You under some delusion that I'm defending the AS
27/10/2010 08:29:14 PM
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No. I'm pointing out you are under the delusion that AS pay for their atrocities.
28/10/2010 09:16:38 AM
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okay, so AS never Still and execute AS for doing stuff ... have you read the series?
28/10/2010 05:20:28 PM
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That doesn't make the -unpunished- atrocities disappear, you know. Your point is lame AND moot.
28/10/2010 07:07:27 PM
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Re: That doesn't make the -unpunished- atrocities disappear, you know. Your point is lame AND moot.
28/10/2010 07:09:33 PM
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To echo Darius...
23/10/2010 08:34:00 PM
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Re: To echo Darius...
25/10/2010 10:03:14 AM
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Go look up the definition of the word atrocity
25/10/2010 04:53:55 PM
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Their implicit role in the genocide of Manetheren was probable their greatest atrocity *NM*
26/10/2010 03:01:01 AM
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You mean the act that got Tetsuan deposed, Stilled and sentenced to hard labor until she gave up the
26/10/2010 04:19:45 AM
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Ya, the ultimated punishment of cleaning pots and floors NOOOOOOOO!!!
26/10/2010 11:59:51 PM
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Maybe you should have done that yourself: "behaviour or an action that is wicked or ruthless"
27/10/2010 11:11:30 AM
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the fact that you can't differentiate between the extermination of an entire village
27/10/2010 08:30:12 PM
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READ; I *did* differentiate between them. It doesn't change the fact all are atrocious deeds
28/10/2010 09:00:56 AM
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28/10/2010 05:22:18 PM
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You asked for atrocities and you got them. Now you just don't know what to do with them.
28/10/2010 06:49:16 PM
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dude, you gave us a list of petty crimes and compared it to mass murder
28/10/2010 06:59:33 PM
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Complete the thought...
28/10/2010 07:11:37 PM
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seems I must do so for this guy to understand ... and I'm not holding my breath on that!
28/10/2010 08:24:57 PM
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Rape, murder, starting wars and doing noting about them, kidnap / severe torture of prisoners... *NM*
28/10/2010 07:51:33 PM
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again you fail to note that the AS have systems in place to prevent these things
28/10/2010 08:23:32 PM
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Again you fail to note that the AS haven't used those "systems" of theirs
28/10/2010 09:02:15 PM
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What wars did they start?
28/10/2010 08:56:46 PM
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You should be an Aes Sedai; the way you can twist truth would scare Siuan.
28/10/2010 09:07:24 PM
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28/10/2010 07:07:57 PM
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Take your own advice, please
28/10/2010 07:30:51 PM
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Come on. Just say it. Real men don't act like catty, bitchy women. *NM*
20/10/2010 11:14:49 PM
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"Rightly hold responsible for the threat of the Shadow?" Puh-leeze
21/10/2010 12:06:34 AM
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Puh-leeze right back at you:
21/10/2010 08:24:12 AM
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The Wheel was created so the DO could break in. The Creator plays his game with the DO thru people
21/10/2010 01:45:07 PM
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It was you who brought up that silly Real World kitchen example, silly.
25/10/2010 10:55:29 AM
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I could say you zinged me, but you're just bent on silliness. Bored now. *NM*
25/10/2010 10:54:41 PM
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Your personal theories do not constitute evidence, and your aberrant logic better supports MY case
21/10/2010 03:21:44 PM
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Objection, your honor! Bringing evidentiary rules into this is asinine! *NM*
21/10/2010 11:22:19 PM
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The word "evidence" is not exclusive to the practice of jurisprudence
23/10/2010 03:31:57 PM
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Rational thinking. Well, you use the word "deserved" in all caps. Nuff said. *NM*
23/10/2010 04:55:02 PM
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Emphasis means nothing one way or another as far as rationality goes, which you would know...
25/10/2010 01:13:23 AM
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You know zilch about my acquaintances. "mk" was wrong - you're not an idiot. But you are ignorable. *NM*
25/10/2010 10:57:04 PM
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21/10/2010 01:47:19 AM
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Not so sure about that
21/10/2010 02:29:02 AM
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the city is closed to WC
21/10/2010 04:01:45 AM
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Re: the city is closed to WC
21/10/2010 04:55:45 AM
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But that is irrelevant. Aes Sedai can also go to Amadicia in disguise. *NM*
21/10/2010 05:35:18 AM
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But they aren't in disguise
21/10/2010 08:31:38 AM
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They don't wear their uniform, their one identifying feature. That is a disguise.
21/10/2010 09:08:25 PM
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Re: They don't wear their uniform, their one identifying feature. That is a disguise.
22/10/2010 02:10:07 PM
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CotL are welcome in Tar Valon to have a drink. Aes Sedai are hanged when found in Amadicia..
21/10/2010 08:33:03 AM
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Now hang on a minute!
21/10/2010 07:28:45 AM
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Re: Now hang on a minute!
21/10/2010 10:49:34 AM
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it would be an interesting comparison if they weren't completely different organizations
21/10/2010 04:09:31 PM
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