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Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 15/09/2009 03:48:34 PM
I tend to think Lews Therin was made the First because of his leadership abilities - he seems to have had some rare Talents, but none of which were as impressive as the skills possessed by the Forsaken and some of Rand's Third Age companions. Perhaps he was a consensus builder, and a capable leader (ie: somewhat like a Blue Ajah Amyrlin - one of their greatest Sisters was considered to be Eadyth who was said to be "one of the most capable Blues in the last one hundred years"...as an Ajah, they seem to prize versatility). Because choosing your leader on the basis of One Power strength doesn't seem to gel with their society, in which strength wasn't as important due to the uniquitousness of Circles. If people referred to leadership qualities, I'd not raise any objections, but the reasons people trot out for Lews to be awarded "Best Man Ever!" always have to do with Talents, OP strength and t'a'veren status - none of which have anything to do with his personality or skills.

That said, Ishamael still lurks somewhere in the evil supervillain category. Basically, he sucks. And I haven't seen anything to prove otherwise. His whole backstory revolves around being defeated again and again - we don't even have any stories of his successes during the War of Power, unlike the other Forsaken. The only "success" he had was turning Hawkwing against Aes Sedai and the formation of the Black Ajah - both of which are rather lackluster in comparison to Lews Therin, Latra Posae or a Rashima Kerenmosa. So his only claim to villainy is being a philosopher who is somewhat of a nihilist (?).
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 15/09/2009 at 03:52:02 PM
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The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 09:27:20 PM 1747 Views
Some thoughts about Semmy - 12/09/2009 09:59:50 PM 935 Views
Re: Some thoughts about Semmy - 13/09/2009 08:33:28 AM 980 Views
Of course... - 13/09/2009 08:36:39 AM 791 Views
I've been thinking the same for years - 12/09/2009 11:25:02 PM 899 Views
The Big White Book says... - 12/09/2009 11:46:43 PM 962 Views
Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:36:37 AM 971 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 03:16:13 PM 864 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 05:47:14 PM 900 Views
Fact is, the bwb is untrustworthy - 13/09/2009 05:54:28 PM 822 Views
We must either use all the quotes from the BWB or none of them - 13/09/2009 06:07:46 PM 875 Views
Or... - 13/09/2009 08:41:23 PM 816 Views
Re: Or... - 14/09/2009 04:46:52 AM 782 Views
But, RJ himself said that the BWB was written from the standpoint of a scholar - 14/09/2009 04:42:59 PM 807 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:17:28 PM 779 Views
It all depends on how you define "powerful" - 14/09/2009 02:30:31 AM 898 Views
I agree 101%. *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:49:51 AM 454 Views
I think power is much more than raw strength - 14/09/2009 05:00:10 AM 785 Views
I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM 907 Views
Re: The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 11:48:03 PM 830 Views
the other reason - 13/09/2009 03:24:24 PM 763 Views
So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 05:41:42 PM 767 Views
Graendal could fight Lanfear and win - 13/09/2009 06:01:57 PM 1305 Views
Graendal herself says... - 13/09/2009 09:08:46 PM 786 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 14/09/2009 04:48:37 AM 810 Views
Doesn't Graendal have an Angreal now? - 17/09/2009 03:29:10 AM 826 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 15/09/2009 05:36:53 PM 698 Views
Lanfear was more powerful than Graendal, but Cyndane has less power - 13/09/2009 10:19:35 PM 774 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 06:05:11 PM 906 Views
I agree with this - 13/09/2009 06:15:24 PM 927 Views
Compulsion=any other deadly weave. Doesn't really change matters - 13/09/2009 10:23:40 PM 786 Views
Excellent point *NM* - 13/09/2009 10:35:08 PM 465 Views
But it did give her an edge, and against two forsaken. *NM* - 13/09/2009 11:12:09 PM 439 Views
Hm? When? *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:04:10 PM 363 Views
tPoD, when she compelled Cyndane and Moghedien. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:19:23 PM 418 Views
Not at all - 14/09/2009 04:51:48 AM 847 Views
Using Compulsion on someone doesn't seem mechanically different - 14/09/2009 09:03:41 PM 693 Views
I'm not so sure about that - 14/09/2009 09:36:45 PM 796 Views
Totally agree - 14/09/2009 10:26:07 PM 601 Views
I don't agree. - 15/09/2009 04:33:04 PM 911 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 14/09/2009 04:34:24 PM 746 Views
But Graendal confronted her... twice! *NM* - 13/09/2009 07:48:29 PM 392 Views
Apparently only the third time counts *NM* - 13/09/2009 08:00:37 PM 427 Views
Really? - 13/09/2009 08:36:33 PM 756 Views
No falsely... - 13/09/2009 11:25:40 PM 983 Views
That's pretty much my opinion in a nutshell - 14/09/2009 04:56:15 AM 914 Views
And, of course, the male and female OP strength ranks might not even correlate that much - 14/09/2009 04:41:58 PM 726 Views
They correlate on some critical points - 14/09/2009 06:57:43 PM 829 Views
That's not exactly what I'm referring to. - 15/09/2009 04:36:29 PM 675 Views
But then we are discussing the same thing - 15/09/2009 06:59:04 PM 816 Views
I think, outside of semantics, our main disagreement doesn't lie amid the higher tiers - 16/09/2009 03:53:09 PM 689 Views
Probably - 16/09/2009 06:31:27 PM 833 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 07:19:03 PM 798 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 08:59:31 PM 754 Views
Re: Probably - 18/09/2009 07:03:09 PM 1086 Views
Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 12:42:36 AM 772 Views
Re: Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 05:26:52 AM 720 Views
I only disagree on one point, I think they are all rather equal in potential, incl. Ishamael - 14/09/2009 04:28:12 PM 778 Views
I do think Ishamel is special - 14/09/2009 07:04:03 PM 860 Views
He's special the same way any individual is special. - 14/09/2009 11:36:42 PM 820 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 08:36:20 AM 794 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 03:48:34 PM 781 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:39:39 PM 777 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:53:00 PM 759 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 06:47:45 PM 733 Views
The more interesting question is... - 14/09/2009 06:34:11 PM 726 Views
Hmmm - 14/09/2009 07:04:34 PM 752 Views
I think we'll see Graendal vs. Aran'gar. - 14/09/2009 07:31:16 PM 826 Views
Ah yes, that makes sense, and would be great! *NM* - 14/09/2009 07:40:29 PM 618 Views
Yeah. Though I think its no competition. Graendal has got to be better than a walking tree! - 14/09/2009 07:50:09 PM 715 Views
They do imply that Graendal is a lot more dangerous than she looks - 14/09/2009 09:08:43 PM 745 Views
I've never underestimated Graendal - 14/09/2009 09:42:49 PM 792 Views
Yeah... her frivolity was always a red flag for me too. - 14/09/2009 10:18:40 PM 772 Views
To me, she is the most lethal. - 15/09/2009 05:18:10 PM 598 Views
Yup... - 15/09/2009 06:39:20 PM 644 Views
I still like Lanfear more - 15/09/2009 06:51:03 PM 733 Views
Bah! She's an idiot! - 15/09/2009 07:06:06 PM 742 Views
only in love *NM* - 15/09/2009 07:23:29 PM 706 Views
Graendal did not beat me and Moghedien - 15/09/2009 05:59:39 PM 820 Views
Agreed - 15/09/2009 06:36:48 PM 718 Views
Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:40:57 PM 840 Views
Re: Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:56:21 PM 762 Views
Hmmm... - 15/09/2009 07:07:45 PM 921 Views

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